This update changes the following:
- Glorious Charge now allows models to charge, fall back and reform during their turn if they win their combat. They now cause fear rather than panic.
- Screeching Back Banners lowered to 20 pts.
- Gospodar Militia loses light armour.
- Streltsi increased to 12 pts.
- Hawks of Miska are now Swarms.
- Urugan Cannon lowered to 85 pts.
- War Wagon lowered to 175 pts.
- Armoured War Bear lowered to 160 pts.
- Sons of Ursun no longer have great weapons, can buy optional lances.
- Tzarina Katarin can exchange her Warhorse for a War-sled.
- Improved layout in the geography section.
Looks great Mathias, but I was looking at Tzarina Katarin and noticed she doesn't have an option for a war sled like Miska under the rules section. Also I found just a minor spelling error on pg. 72 last paragraph, line 5, I think you were saying direct.
ReplyDeleteCoincidentally this is also where it talks about her being able to be in a war sled. I think she should have this option if she can in the storyline.
One last thing about the character. Under special rules on pg.89 you forgot to put Loremaster for Katarin.That is all, if I find anything else I'll let you know.
I've added the war-sled option for the Tzarina. There no spelling error there though, it's supposed to be "direst". Also added Loremaster to her army list entry.
DeleteGood job. Keep up the good work. Appreciate your hard work Mathias!
ReplyDeleteHi there,
ReplyDeleteI made this comment on one of your previous posts but that probably won't get noticed. I love Kislev, have a nice army of them and try to keep as much of my force on a horse as possible. Which leaves me with a medium cavalry force, not heavy, not light. However this struggles to do much without infantry support because I can't break units on the charge and I can't grind them down either.
I have starting to experiment with these two rules in tandem. Firstly countercharge - so if one of my cavalry unit is charged I can counter charge. I move forward D6 and then they meet me (makes their charge far more likely to hit) now we both count as charging and I get to use my lances. Secondly if I win combat I can FALL BACK. this is a flee move after which I can make a full reform. Enemy can only pursue with a single D6 (if caught dead). Now I am ready to either charge in again - or counter charge again. Basically it means my unit is more often +2 S from lances and +1 CR from charging - but (as fits medium cav there is a lot of risk and movement involved).
Not playtested this sufficiently to say it is fair, or what points cost this would add but so far we've had some fun with it
Hi,
DeleteI think the disengage rule could be very interest actually, since it's not far from how the Polish Hussars operated. They usually did multiple charges against the enemy, until they managed to break them. I do think the counter-charge rules might be suited better to Norse, but a general disengage rule for winged lancers sounds like a good way of giving them a bit more punch.
Hi there, I see your latest update has the disengage concept I mentioned incorporated into your glorious charge rule. However without a counter charge I can't see it's use.
ReplyDeleteAssuming we have 10 winged lancers - charge into a unit of standard 20 infantry, so swordmen or something. Winged lancers maybe kill 5 for the loss of 1. swordsmen hold. Now they fall back a swiftstride 2D6 - which will put them about 9 inches back. Now it is the swordsmen turn. they will charge in - to prevent the cavalry using lances. Now we are in exactly the same situation as we were a moment ago, however the whole combat has moved 9 inches closer to the kislev table edge and the swordsmen have +1CR, so really we'd have been better off not fleeing. (OK there is a risk that the swordsmen fail their charge - but they need a 5 on 2D6, and that is assuming M4 troops, against elves, skaven, cavalry etc this can largely be ignored.
This needs the counter charge rule to work with it, Swordsmen charge in - winged lancers counter charge. Now the difference is that the lancers are using lances and the swordsmen no longer have +1CR (both have it, so cancels out). Using the two rules together you have the choice of fighting a second round where you are using handweapons, or fighting 9 inches backwards but with lances.
I think you are looking too closely at only the winged lancers - cavalry in today's Warhammer is not supposed to be able to singlehandedly take out large units of infantry to the front. With the way the rule works now, you can charge, disengage to avoid being bogged down and killed in prolonged combat with only a 3+ save, and then get the charge again if you roll slightly further than the average (10"). However, this is really when you should use other units in support. If you place a friendly infantry unit behind the Winged Lancers, this unit will be able to take the (now damaged) enemy unit head-on after the Winged Lancers disengage, while the Winged Lancers can get into a better position for a second charge. This way you have better unit synergy, as opposed to just ramming your cavalry into the enemy until you or they break.
DeleteSorry me again.
ReplyDeleteAfter further reading the following thoughts.
The War sled is not very well defined. Miska has one in her profile, but her is pulled by bears, and your description of Katrina's is that it is pulled by horses, but there is no stat line for it, also it costs 120 pts, plus the cost of the horse built into her profile that she loses, Miska's is 140 with bears, which implies that Katrina's should have bears too, so the narrative should change.
Also Bears generally are a bit confusing. There are bears with tamers, bears that the sons of Ursa ride, Urskin (boris's mount), then there are Great bears as a monstrous mount and then the big armoured war bear.
In the narrative you imply that the brown bears are the normal ones, white (polar) bears are bigger and then there are some huge ones out there. This doesn't quite follow through with your stat lines though.
The normal bear tamers and the sons of Ursa are the same stat line - although the normal ones i guess are brown bears and the Sons of Ursa ride White ones.
The great bear has +1T (which using the latest FAQ) grants that T to the rider - so you have T5 characters. Did you intend that?
Urskin has +1 S,A,Ld on the great bear - ok so that makes sense and the big bear is better in lots of ways.
So the disparity between stats and narrative is that the normal bears are either too good, or the sons of ursa bears are not good enough. Would it be possible to change the stat lines of bears and great bears so that you have the sons on great bears which are better than normal bears so maybe drop the normal bear WS by 1, or just remove the great bear, so then the differences are just in the mind.
Thanks for reading
The war-sled is identical for both the Tzarina and Miska, the reason the Tzarina's is cheaper of because she already pays for a horse. I.e. they are both drawn by bears.
DeleteI think you are looking too much at the artwork regarding what bears are which, there is nothing saying that the Sons of Ursun ride polar bears in the rules, they are just common brown bears.
I will probably have to nerf the T of the Great Bear though, just to make them on the same level as an Empire character on a demi-gryph would be.