When it comes to building your army, theming is much more important, as only Daemons belonging to the same god counts as friendly units, the rest are either Suspicious or Desperate Allies. So while you can still make a combined force, it will come with more drawbacks, just like Warriors of Chaos.
I have also switched out the whole bestiary artwork from 8th ed, so rather than having the concept sketches by John Blance, you now have more "finished" artwork like any other army book. This was the main issue I had with the previous two versions of the Daemon books from a visual perspective; rather than using and building upon the excellent art from 6th edition's Hordes of Chaos, it seems like GW opted to save money by just using the original concept art throughout the whole book instead (heck, the 8th Ed Hellflayer entry had a picture of a normal Seeker Chariot for some reason, which was fortunately fixed in the 40k version). So consider that fixed.
Soulgrinders will be released as a separate download for those who want to use the model.
Download
The main changes from the Ravening Hordes list and 8th ed Army Book are the following:
- New SC: Be'lakor
- New SC: Horticulous Slimux
- New Lord: Gaunt Summoner
- New Lord: Infernal Enrapturess
- New Core Unit: Plague Toads of Nurgle.
- Daemons belonging to different gods treat each other as Suspicious/Desperate allies.
- Daemons must use the Lore of their god, do not have Lore of Metal, Death or Shadow.
- Removed Blood Chariot of Khorne (as there are already Blood Thrones and Skull Cannons to fill that role).
- Removed Plague Cart of Nurgle (as there is no model or existing fluff for it unlike the other chariots).
- Removed Changebringers of Tzeentch (as there is no model or existing fluff for it, and the burning chariot covers it fairly well already).
- Removed Pleasureseekers of Slaanesh (as there is no model or existing fluff for it, and I'd rather not have the same unit (Fiends) be included twice in the special section).
- All Heralds have 3 Loci to choose from like in 8th ed, with adjusted pts costs.
- Plenty of new Daemonic Gifts to give your characters from 7th, 6th and 5th ed.
- Flesh Hounds and Fiends of Slaanesh have Champion upgrades.
- Exalted Seeker Chariots are Character Mounts (having 3 different Slaanesh chariots as normal units was really excessive).
- Furies are Expendable, have S3, 14 pts.
- Nurglings are not scouts, have WS2, S2, T2, W8, A8.
- Pink Horrors now has the Split special rule, either causing them to explode or turn into two Blue Horrors.
- Screamers have the Multiple Wounds (D3) special rule against monsters, A2.
- Firewyrms fire 2D6 shots.
- Beasts of Nurgle have Random Attacks (D3+1), Regen 4+, and the Attention Seeker special rule from 8th ed.
- Burning Chariots have Exalted Flamers as crew, not normal Flamers. Can take Blue Horror crew. Moved to Rare.
- Exalted Flamer moved to Heroes.
- Spell Destroyer does not automatically dispel spells, but can instead be used to destroy enemy spells multiple times during the game.
- Daemon Princes may be Unaligned, and does not need to be upgraded to a single god. Can choose Lore of Fire, Metal, Death, Shadow.
- Karanak has W2, does not have the Ambushers rule, have Vanguard.
- Ku'gath is riding on a palanquin, 525 pts.
- Skarbrand 490 pts.
- Skulltaker has the Locus of Wrath, 260 pts.
- The Masque of Slaanesh gives -1D3 to both Initivative and Ld, rather than just -1, 170 pts.
- Karanak 250 pts.
- The Blue Scribes 100 pts.
- The Changeling 175 pts.
- Epidemius counts as Infantry, 250 pts.
- Fixed some bugs.
And with that, the last of the army books is finally finished! This means I can now go back to focusing on balance updates for the existing books instead, which in turn means you can expect to see quicker updates in the future. Enjoy (or be destroyed, according to Slaanesh)!
Congratulations. An epic piece of work in completing the series. What you have done is awesome. I'd say take a break but your work is so good ans so thoroughly researched, I just want you to carry on. Well done.
ReplyDeleteThat came about rather fast Mathias :-)
ReplyDeleteFor this book, I won't be as involved as usual, but I'll try to find time to go through it at least once. Not really an army I have that much hands-on experience with overall, so I suspect my insights are not as evolved/refined.
Downloading...
-I don't think you should have removed access to Arcane Lores. The Arcane Lore chosen for each one matched the god as well.
ReplyDelete-I see a lot of descriptions of effects that don't affect Animated Constructs. In some of these cases, this should include Undead since Undead are a form of Animated Construct, just one made of corpses. The rules I think should not affect Undead are Stream of Bile, Nurgle's Rot, Pestilent Mucus, Noxious Vapours and Soporific Musk.
-Bloodgthirsters, Skarbrand and Juggernauts have Magic Resistance (1). Since their a Daemon of Khorne, which gives them Magic Resistance (1), that instance of Magic Resistance does nothing.
-Bloodletters used to have a 6+ armor save inherently. Consider bringing this back?
-The Cloak of Skulls worn by Skulltaker grants Magic Resistance (1), which he already has due to being a Daemon of Khorne.
-Why would Lamprey's Bite not affect Animated Constructs or Forest Spirits? I also think that Screamers should roll To Hit as if they were making a close combat attack when making a Slashing Attack, or maybe remove Slashing Attack like you removed how Hexwraiths can pass through units while hitting them, since it doesn't make sense how Screamers can swoop down to attack something but their target has no chance to strike back.
-The Blue Scribes should be Strength 2 like typical Blue Horrors.
-Kugath Plaguefather has both the Slime Trail special rule and Slime Trail daemonic gift.
-If there is an Exalted Keeper of Secrets in here then why aren't the Exalted Daemons of the other gods represented?
-Which Flames of Tzeentch does a Daemon that has purchased Flames of Tzeentch possess? The Flamer version or Firewyrm version?
-The Nurgle's Rot Daemonic Gift is mispelled as "Nugrle's Rot".
-The Soporific Musk Daemonic Gift uses the exact same description as the Fiend of Slaanesh description, which includes it saying "Models in base contact with one or more Fiends of Slaanesh".
-Enrapturing Gaze is misspelled Enrupturing Gaze.
-The Banner of Ecstasy says "Daemon of Slaanesh only." twice.
-Bloodthirsters should have Hellblades and Great Unclean Ones should have Plagueswords. It doesn't make sense for them to have weaker weapons than the Lesser Daemons.
-Maybe Gaunt Summoners could be upgraded to Wizard Level 4.
-Are you sure that Gaunt Summoners and Infernal Enrapturesses shouldn't be special forms of Heralds (and therefore, Heroes)?
-The Blissbringer unit champion of the Fiends of Slaanesh doesn't have 4 attacks (1 more than a regular Fiend).
- This is really just going back to earlier fluff, I can't really think of any mentions of them using any other lore except their Daemon one, which fits better anyway. You could still take Unaligned Daemon Princes with access to the normal lores.
Delete- Undead will get the Animated Construct rule, so that will be taken care of.
- Will fix.
- The few scales they have on their backs is not really enough to warrant being light armour imo, much like it doesn't for Skinks either.
- Will fix.
- They do not have any blood or skin to bite. They are essentially giant leeches, not much help against "unliving" units. I think their slashing attack is okay as is, it does not auto-hit like the hexwraiths did, so it's considerable less overpowered.
- They are heroes though, so them having +1 S is okay.
- Will fix.
- That's a bug, Exalted Daemons are not intended to be be featured in the army book, they will be available in an expansion instead.
- Normal Flamers, will clarify.
- Will fix.
- Will fix.
- Will fix.
- Bloodthirsters do not really have Hellblades though in the lore. Great Unclean Ones often use flails rather than swords, but already have Poisoned Attacks. They can also take magic weapons that are more powerful. Could give Bloodthirsters Killing blow by default though.
- Will fix.
- Their lore is quite different from the normal heralds, and their various special rules would make then too powerful to be heroes.
- Will fix.
Since you are doing a general update wave next, I have some suggestions:
ReplyDelete-Units come in three sizes, small for infantry, cavalry and war beasts, large for chariots and monstrous ________ and monstrous for Shrines and Monsters. I think small models should be limited to 1-4 wounds, large be limited to 3-5 wounds and monstrous have 5+ wounds. This would require increasing the points costs of some shrines and monsters a little but with every book written, you can do it without inconsistencies.
-Adjust the Strength or Toughness values of heroes and lords so that Lords will have +1 of those over Heroes. Each species has a base strength and toughness value. If they can field units with +1 strength or toughness above the base, then the heroes have +1 strength and toughness over their baseline and the lords have either +2 strength or +2 toughness over the baseline with the other being +1. If the species cannot field units that have +1 strength or toughness over the baseline, then the heroes have +1 strength or toughness over the baseline and the Lords have both +1 over the baseline.
-You've set Ward Saves to a maximum of 4+ and I understand that, but why not make it that parry (and only parry) can take it above 4+ to a maximum of 2+. Most Ward Saves come from magical protections and you can only stack so much without hurting the bearer but parry saves are a mundane protection that should stack with magical ones without issue. Either that or make Parry separate from Ward saves.
-All armies could have access to Light and Medium armor at a minimum, even if medium is only available to the lords and heroes. If they don't have the technology base to build their medium armor out of metal, it could be the skins of a tough beast since this is the Warhammer world.
In the case of suggestions specific to Albion:
-Make Woad Raiders WS4, they are described as having spent considerable time in battle.
-The War Hawks of Hunters get replaced with a core unit almost identical to the Hawks of Mishka from Kislev.
-The warhounds, wolves etc. of other factions are able to act normally without handlers. Why not remove the handlers from Warhounds and not force them to charge at all times? Either that or put the Handler on a horse so he can keep up with his hounds.
-Warriors of Danu could be given more control over their transformation so that their always in the Spasm Warrior form.
-Sidhe could gain special affects based on the Greek element they are attuned to. Air grants Hover, Earth grants Regeneration, Fire grants Flaming Attacks and increased Strength and Water grants Always Strikes First.
-The Stone Thrower doesn't need to be Slow to Fire. All artillery has that. It should also have Multiple Wounds (D6), it's meant to be equivalent to a Bretonnian Trebuchet.
-The Mastodon needs a major buff. It's weaker than a Ramhorn while costing the same points. I say, just make it identical to the Ramhorn and buff up the crew to the level of Hearthguard.
-The Giant doesn't have Immune to Psychology like giants from other factions (with the exception of Ogres due to the cruelty the Giant suffers from at the hands of Ogres).
-Replace Charge Bonus (2) with Strength Bonus (2) that only applies on the turn she charges from Gwenlaen's Sword of Oghma.
-Maybe Cormac Chath and Connor Macfeud could have 4 attacks? They are stated to be some of the greatest warriors in Albion so it would make sense for them to have equal stats to Warleaders.
-Elemental Power is a bit limited. Perhaps make it able to bring back dead models if the D3 roll takes the wounds of one above 4 like how Regrowth works?
-Truthsayers and Druids should have access to shields like Druid Neophytes.
-The Swordmaidens have a formatting error in their Swordmistress option.
-Druid Neophytes are called Swordmaidens in the points cost section.
Finally Mathias has accomplished the Warhammer community dream: Finish all the books in a same edition!!!! Just infinite congratulations!!!! This is a day to mark in the history.
ReplyDeleteA bug reported:
Bloodletters of khorne have 2 wounds in the bestiary
Thank you, I feel pretty happy about it too :)
DeleteStill lots of stuff left to do, but at least I won't have to go and edit thousands of pages of lore anymore!
Just a question regarding Khorne daemons. Being a Khorne daemon gives you Magic Resistance 1. However some of the Khorne daemons come with Magic Resistance 1 or 2. As Magic Resistance does not stack is having it as part of the model and part of being a khorne daemon a bit pointless, is some cases? Cheers
ReplyDeleteYou are right about that, my mistake. Will patch those units so they all have +1 Magic resistance instead.
DeleteGlad you managed to finish this one, and I wish you luck on finishing the others. However, I must ask: What do the Gnoblar Horde and Nagash books entail? I thought gnoblars were covered in the Ogres? Also, regarding the Fimir: That one should be simple, since it was made once before, yes?
ReplyDeleteBoth are smaller expansions with some fluff and rules. Gnoblar Hordes was an army list in White Dwarf. The Fimir list will work in a similar fashion as a smaller, more limited army list than the earlier book.
DeleteIs there a chance for the missing 8th ed books as a ravening horde update with special chars? Elves, lizies, chaos and dwarfs?
ReplyDeleteYes, that will be updated as soon as I have finished all updates for 9th ed. After that, 8th ed will get new Ravening Hordes updates for all armies with the same rules updates as the 9th ed books.
DeleteLol, the day you release the book is the same day we get a whole bunch of Chaos stuff including new Slaanesh stuff.
ReplyDeleteI know, the irony...
DeleteWill have go go back and update the book as soon as the slaanesh battletome is out so the new models can be included.
Great job again. I would fully support exalted greater daemons being available (like the KoS) but I suspect you plan to remove those. Was sad to see the Changebringers go, I bought some models especially to convert - will just use the Ravening Hordes rules for them). Think they were originally in Storm of Chaos.
ReplyDeleteExalted greater daemons will be able as part of an expansion, along with the soulgrinder. I could include the plaguecart and changebringers there as well.
DeleteThat would be great - I have a Plaguecart too!
DeleteMeant to ask any thoughts on adding Brimstone horrors? As a swarm maybe?
DeleteNot really sure I like the Deamons as they are right now. Just an example: Considering that the bloodletters are supposed to be raging slaughterers, 1 single S4 attack (S5 on the charge) is not really that impressive. Comparing the to saurus which I always assumed are similarly able in terms of CC they definitely fall short. I think having Deamons of korne not be frenzied is pretty strange from a lore point of view. I think the basic Deamons should all be "elite" when compared to basic units of other factions excluding chaos warriors and the like.
ReplyDeleteWell, Bloodletters have always been always been A1 since 6th ed, and they can be given Frenzy as an upgrade. Making them better also makes them more expensive, and Daemons are already a high-cost army as is.
Delete