- Nerfed Armand to not give negative Ld to enemy units. In 8th ed, enemy units test at their unmodified Ld (so no Steadfast with General's Ld).
- Nerfed Tristan to give +1 to Ward save rather than 4+ ward against all strength.
- Nerfed Knightly Temper to only give attacks after saves, 25 pts.
- Some new-ish fluff blurbs.
- Morning stars removed from 9th ed.
Welcome to the Warhammer Armies Project, the home of the unofficial 9th Edition for Warhammer Fantasy Battles and the most popular unofficial army lists online. It will gradually be updated with new books in a rules-only format. It also serves as my hobby blog for my personal Warhammer collection.
Monday, 6 June 2016
New Bretonnia update out now!
Quick balance update based on feedback:
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-Since you have added Strength Bonus and Charge Bonus to the list of special rules, perhaps a rule could be added called Brace Bonus which grants a strength bonus on the first turn of combat to units making attacks to the front. Then give spears wielded by infantry Brace Bonus (1) and Pikes Brace Bonus (2).
ReplyDelete-I really think the rules for ridden monsters from 8th edition made the most sense. The fact that the little general riding the griffon is wearing full plate armor won't make the griffon any more resilient while shooting the riders dead is a valid tactic in war. Even under the previous system, riding a monster still significantly increased the resilience of the character since the tougher mount would absorb 2/3 of all attacks. Though I would make it that monster reactions are only done by monsters of Ld6 or less since I don't think there are any non-sapient monsters that have a leadership of 7 or better. It's assumed that a dragon ridden by a High Elf Archmage will still stick to the battleplan despite his partner being shot off.
-For Brace Bonus, I meant to say units charged at the front.
DeleteRather off topic, but I was looking at the undead book (8th) and ... fell bats - they are still rubbish. for 16 points you get 2 flying humans, the undead is probably more of a weakness than a gain. No extra rules/benefits. Any suggestions? other than reduce the cost? The figures deserve a little more love
ReplyDeleteI believe I did already lower the cost from 20 pts. A Harppy is 12 pts with only 1 W, so it's rather difficult to make them even cheaper. I don't think adding rules just for the sake of adding more rules is a great idea either.
DeleteNo 8th ed vampire book has them at 16 points. Harpies have a huge advantage over fell bats in their base size, they have a base a quarter of the size, so they are much more scary, you can get 4 attacks in the same space, with another 2 from behind, (2nd rank) the bats getting half that, and are harder to manoeuvre because of their footprint.
DeletePersonally, I think that creatures in the Vampire Counts army book that aren't undead or are vampiric shouldn't have the undead special rule. Vampires, Necromancers, Vargheists and Varghulfs are a lot more stable and self-aware than typical undead and therefore, have to deal with the typical morale problems that living people deal with and won't drop dead when put under stress. Ghouls, bats and Crypt Horrors are still alive and should have to deal with morale. I know that when unstable takes affect, it is explained that ghouls, bats and crypt horrors simply leave the battlefield but what if the unit is completely surrounded and therefore unable to flee?
Deleteoh and 9th ed vampire book has a typo on Mortis engine in the army list
ReplyDeleteIn the 9th rule set, You have stated that Fast cav with a save greater than 5+ lose the fast cav status - this is a real hammer blow to goblin and hobgoblins - unless you plan on making them explicitly exempt in their army books.
ReplyDeleteNow you have given short normal and long bows multiple shot, it rather makes the repeater crossbow a bit rubbish in comparison (and it lost the armour piercing) shouldn't it be multiple shot (3) to keep it ahead of the others?
The flails are +2 S - but you don't say that it only lasts one round.... but your description implies it does. Why did the morning star go, personally I think we should give more units the option to take it, rather than removing the weapon...
I might change this to a 4+ save in the rules, I will look into it.
DeleteRepeater crossbows can still move and fire which makes them very useful for Dark Riders, and decent for Darkshards who can advance with the army. Bows for instance, cannot turn to fire and will be left vulnerable in their deployment zone. There's also less of a points difference between bows and repeater crossbows now.
Flails have the Strength Bonus special rule, which can be found in the special rules section. This describes that it only lasts one turn. Morning stars are used by very few models, and those models usually have other hand weapons as well. There's no unit that is only equipped with morning stars in the game, hence it does not have much of a point.
The Fast Cav limit of 5+ AS is also a concern for Nippon. Samurai Cavalry and Red Devils loose their Fast Cavalry because they are wearing heavy armour. I have certainly been assuming that samurai have heavy armour in 9th (medium for Warrior Monks, otherwise no changes though possibly medium for Onna Bushi also).
DeleteAbout Flying Cavalry. They become both Skirmishers and Fast Cav, but do they loose Fast Cav due to too great AS also?
I don't really know what Phillip and Ravendark are talking about. Goblin and Hobgoblin Fast Cavalry tend to wear light armor and shields which results in a 5+ armor save (remember that in 9th edition, there is no armor save bonus from riding something) which means that hobgoblins only lose fast cavalry if they carry medium armor and a shield or take barding. For Nippon, every model that I've seen of samurai makes it look like they are wearing medium armor and won't be upgraded to heavy armor in 9th edition.
DeleteYeah, you are right, got confused their myself :p
DeleteAnd yes, Nippon will have LA and MA, not heavy armour.
Oh, I just assumed they would have HA. My models have armour on both arms (chainmail with cloth on top and rigid plates), legs, breastplates and most have facemasks. But its true that the earlier kozane armours (individual scales, mostly made of leather) could easily be MA. The later, 1500's, tosei-gusoku armours (iron plates), developed because of the need for protection against firearms, are however quite heavy. Sensible samurai of the times only bought armour proven to be able to resist a matchlock bullet.
DeleteMaybe characters should have the option of upgrading to heavy, there surely are models with historic characters wearing especially protective armour.
No big deal either way, Nippon don't exactly live on their AS anyway :)
I'm using mainly Perry Samurai (from the Sengoku period) myself, but compared to Bretonnians, they are pretty lightly armoured. They don't have any gloves or shoe armour, and most of their upper legs are just cloth too. Some have chainmail on their arms, but many only have partial plate over cloth, and most standard samurai don't have the mempo (face mask) either, that is usually reserved for the elite. It's about the same as Stormvermin and Bestigors, both of which have medium armour.
DeleteWill Great Guard wear Heavy Armor? I have no idea where one can find models for Great Guard. If they do wear Heavy Armor then characters should be able to upgrade to it.
DeleteCharacters might get heavy armour, but I'm not sure yet. Great Guard will have the same options as the characters, I plan on changing the 8th ed version too so they only have HA.
DeleteThinking it over, I agree that MA is the best for samurai. There is no reason to dilute the concept of HA, it is better to have a wide category for MA.
DeleteMy models for Great Guard are simply different unicorn models converted slightly with elite samurai cavalry models riding them. The idea that they will fall to AS 4+ in 9th in a bit meh, but they have T4 now and still have the Horo Cloaks for some decent ranged protection, especially against bows.
HA is more important for characters IMO, since the lack of shields means they are very lightly armoured compared to the chars they might duel. While only a few historical models have clear plate-armour-like HA (mostly used by very important heir-less daimyo) there are some fantasy samurai models with quite decent protection. Overall I don't think its much important anyway balance-wise. Samurai have always-parry for extra protection and there is always Armour of Silvered Steel if AS is a must.
OK I have had a more comprehensive look at the missile weapon rules:
ReplyDeleteQuestion - using an example:
30 goblins 6 ranks of 5 shooting at something 15” away – a realistic scenario BS3 troops not moving shooting at long range. GW 8th ed rules have that as 10 shots from the first two ranks and half the shots from the next 4 ranks, so another 10. 20 shots needing a 5 to hit, so a third of 20 = 7ish
now if they didn’t move, volley fire is -1 to hit but all can shoot so that is 30 shots needing 6s. that is 5 hits.
And if they choose to multiple shoot but not volley fire – 20 shots needing 6s – so around 3 hits
And if they go for multiple shot and volley fire that is 60 shots needing 7s, so 5 hits.
All of the 9th edition options are worse than the old 8th. Was that the intention? Feels like a lot of dice rolling for very little benefit. What was wrong with the old volley fire rules that prompted you to change it?
I think you might have missed that long range is gone in 9th ed. So volley fire gives 30 shots that hits on 5+ = 10 hits.
DeleteMultiple shots gives 20 shots on 5+ = 7 hits.
Multiple Shots and Volley Fire gives 60 shots hitting on 6's = 10 hits.
So bow shooting is better in 9th ed, that's why bows are more expensive.
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ReplyDeleteYou have to roll at least 2 power dice in order to get a double 6 when casting, then you roll two dice (since you used to dice to cast) + plus one more dice on the miscast table, meaning that the minimum number you can get is 3x 1's.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Grails need a point drop, they are pretty amazing at 42 per model.
ReplyDeleteI've a question for Mathias:
ReplyDeleteAs the Basic Rules for the 9th now said that you cannot have more rank than files, that means Bretonnian Lances could be just six or nine in numbers?
In a 12 knights Lance I will have three knights in the front rank and three more ranks with a total of four. Actually it seems an option not available following the main rules. Please let me know