Note that this is only the 8th ed version, I'd like to get feedback on all bugs before I make the 9th ed version, which should be out within a week.
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This update changes the following (compared to the RH list):
- New Hero unit: Yeti Rimespeaker.
- New Special unit: Rhinox War Chariot.
- New Special unit: Gnoblar Skewerslinger.
- New Special unit: Cragbeasts.
- New Special Character: Jhared the Red.
- New Special Character: Braugh Slavelord.
- New Special Character: Groth Onefinger.
- New Special Character: Ghark Ironskin.
- New Special Character: Morg Magmaborn.
- Greasus 395 pts.
- Skrag 455 pts.
- Golgfag 235 pts.
- Bragg 175 pts.
- Added Gnoblars upgrades for characters (including the new scalp-gnoblars and name-gnoblars).
- Added Bicker to Gnoblars.
- Added "Down to the Ironguts" to Ironguts.
- Leadbelchers moved back to special, which fits better with their fluff.
- Gave Ogres back LA by default to represent the gut plate (although they otherwise are unarmoured).
- Slaughtermasters may take a "Butcher's Cauldron" to aid in spellcasting.
- Removed Head Honcho (who will be included in the Gnoblar Hordes list instead).
- Big Names moved to a separate pool, added Daemonkiller.
- Thundertusks may be taken as mounts for Hunters.
Enjoy! Next month I hope to have the Tomb Kings book out, or at least updates for Bretonnia and Beastmen (which I have also been working on side-by-side with the OK book).
-The Bruiser is misspelled as 'Brusier' in the title of their page. They (and their special character versions) should also be T4, following the established pattern of +1 strength or toughness for heroes and +1 strength and toughness for lords.
ReplyDelete-Butchers and Firebellies should be T4. In the rest of the army books, only Lord level wizards have +1 toughness.
-Hunters should be WS4 BS5 since ranged-specialized heroes tend to have +1WS +3BS compared to the rank and file. Perhaps the Great Throwing Spear could be replaced with Javelins.
-Maneaters should be S4 I2. Monstrous units tend to not have elite versions with more strength and Been There Done That is significant justification for them to be in special instead of core compared to the Ogre Bull.
-Rhinox Riders and Thunderlords should also be WS4 BS3. They are the elite cavalry of the Ogres.
-Rhinox Chariots do not need the Impact Hits (D3) special rule. They already have a superior version due to being a Chariot unit.
-Rimespeakers should be T5. The fact that they use bound spells seems to make them the equivalent of a priest from other factions. They should also be able to channel Power and Dispel dice like a wizard.
-Gnoblar Scraplaunchas and Skewerslingers should have Beneath Contempt and Bicker.
-Skewerslingers should fire a S5 missile like the Scorpion of the Dogs of War since it has the same range. They also should inherently fire Multiple Shots instead of as a choice since I'd imagine that Gnoblars won't care about the concept of overkill.
-Shouldn't Greasus have 5 attacks?
-Skrag should count as a War Machine like other Slaughtermasters with a Cauldron.
-Ghark should be I4 like a regular Tyrant.
-Bragg should be BS4. Just an aesthetic thing for consistency with other Bruisers.
-I don't understand why Mawseeker should be Tyrants only. I see no reason why Slaughtermasters or Butchers wouldn't seek out the maw. Maybe make it Lords only instead.
-Does an Ogre wielding Siegebreaker use Initiative or WS to attack. I'm thinking WS since having low Initiative would mean that the Ogre is less likely to hit a lot of targets instead of more.
-Remember when I pointed out that some of the artwork of Albion has warriors wearing chainmail and therefore, Albion should have access to medium armor but you pointed out that it doesn't cover enough? Maybe the gut plate shouldn't count as light armor since it's even less covering than the chainmail.
-Either Sabretusks should be core units or Cragbeasts should be rare units. Sabretusks should have 2 attacks and Cragbeast should be Monstrous Beasts. 2 attacks is already more than most war beast units possess and cragbeasts have the statline of a monstrous beast.
-Mammoths should not have Natural Armor. Currently, they have armor as good as a stonehorn and better than a Thundertusk despite the former being partially stone and the latter being covered in ice.
-Stonehorns should have smooth ride so that people might actually use the Harpoon option.
- Fixed misspelling. Most fighter characters have both +1S and T, so this is not an oversight for Brusiers.
Delete- Fixed.
- Hunters are not super-shooters though, they just use more missile weapons then other characters. BS5 would be too high for Ogres imo.
- It's better to look at them compared to other armies' elites, where +1S and I is very common.
- Rhinox Riders are still ridden by Ogre Bulls according to the fluff though, it's the mount if anything that makes them elite. The original Mournfang fluff was almost the same as the Rhinox rider fluff, and they have WS3 too, as did the 6th ed version of rhinox riders.
- Fixed.
- Yhetees are of pretty slight build though, I want to emphasise their glass-cannon nature. Added channelling.
- Bicker/animosity not used for war machines and chariots. Beneath contempt fits for the gnoblars sure, but I'm pretty sure the ogres would be bothered by a rhinox fleeing through them!
- Upped range to 48" like normal bolt throwers. Multiple shots is always an option, it's part of the main rules.
- Nope, he has 3 attacks in the official rules. He ain't all that agile ;)
- Skrag is a bit different because the cauldron shares the same base and is litterally attached to him.
- Fixed.
- WS.
- Basic chainmail is light armour, which is what Albion's elite is wearing, the standard warriors tend to only wear a helmet, a belt and maybe some vambraces. The Gutplate, while not that large for an ogre, is still like a large shield that protects their vital organ from the strikes of most infantry models, and is quite descriptive as being armour. This is a bit of middle-ground decision, as compared to many other races, Ogres with heavy armour are very lightly armoured.
- Changed Sabretusks to 2A each in the bestiary. Changed cragbeasts to MB in the army list. Both are more fitting as special choices imo.
- This is partly due to game balance, but Indan and Arabyan elephants have a 5+ save, and rhinoxen also have a 4+ save. It's a combination of fur, muscle and fat that protects them.
- This was removed due to the charging nature of the stonehorn, it's not really a beast that slowly lumbers into battle like the thundertusk.
- Fall Over is something that only standard giants have though due to their inbred nature, sea giants are a different species entirely. They don't really suffer from the same deficiency like other sea creatures due to having humanoid limbs.
On a note unrelated to this army book. I think that the Sea Giant should be more clumsy on land than a land giant due to being used to an environment with water to counteract gravity. They would have the same 'Fall Over' rule as the regular giant but it takes effect on a roll of 1 or 2 instead of 1 and never takes effect if the giant is within water terrain.
ReplyDeleteYour changes to Yhetees had me seriously considering getting some for the first time. I think you really found a niche for them in the list, congratulations.
ReplyDeleteLooks great. can't wait to see more of the 9th ed books!
ReplyDeleteWoo! Glad to see you properly back in the saddle and making books Matthias!
ReplyDeleteI've been looking at some of the changes and I noticed some print mistakes, the first is that on the Page Dedicated to leadbelcher they have the characteristics of Ogre Bulls (BS2 and all) while in the army list and unit summary section they have what I am going to assume is their correct characteristics because of BS3 and BS4 on the Thunderfist. The other mistake I found was the thundertusk which does not include a mention of its impact hits found in the army list section or a any mention of and description of the "Numbing Chill" rule.
ReplyDeleteAnd Finally I feel the need to argue that the Firebelly's Breath Weapon should stay Strength 4. Since at strength 3 it will struggle to serve its purpose of knocking the regeneration off of the likes of Hydras and Hellpit abominations. Not to mention the fact that with no armor modification it will struggle to cook its way through even light infantry.
And A further addendum on the subject of firebellies. Possibly consider giving them the option to take light armor (and possibly and Ironfist) as the official model for them has a rather impressive gutplate and metal faceplate. Since it looks like you kept in the option for butchers to obtain magic armor through their ironfist option, it seems strange to restrict the firebellies.
DeleteFixed leadbelchers and numbing chill. Thudnertusks actually do not have impact hits in the official rules, but since that makes little since, I've added impact hits to him with a 25 pts price bump. With the stonehorn, I've made it so that they re-roll their impact hits instead of causing 3D3, but they can now attack normally on the charge, also with a price bump.
DeleteThe firebelly was nerfed to avoid players spamming them in gut stars and the like, which makes them just a little too effective against light infantry. Normally S4 breath weapons are limited to expensive monsters that cannot easily be stacked with static combat res.
As for giving firebellies light armour, that opens up an issue with them then being able to take magic armour, which is a problem since they are wizards. Ironfists are not armour, so butchers cannot take other armour pieces.
Ah so there have been some changes to the ironfist from the "official" army book that I didn't notice. My brain was still running on that old FAQ. Good to see that you fixed the armored butcher issue.
DeleteIf you are trying to reduce spamming strength 4 breath weapons maybe have an option to upgrade the breath weapon to strength 4 for some points. And possibly limiting it to one firebelly per army much like the "Master of the Dead" rule in the VC army book.
im waiting for 9th
ReplyDeleteIt will be out soon, planning to finish it this weekend ;)
DeleteIs there a reason the Grimhorn Rhinox and regular Rhinox have the same stats? I thought Grimhorn were meant to be bigger, badder, meaner Rhinox, which in the experimental Forge World rules for them, they were.
ReplyDeleteThat they were, but I personally kept the name to separate them a bit from the more docile rhinoxen pulling the scraplaunchers (who are not frenzied).
DeleteThe Rhinoxen pulling the Rhinox chariot should not have Frenzy. It's said in the fluff of the Scraplauncha that adult Rhinoxen are too Stubborn to haul anything. Also, the sentence where it describes why young Rhinoxen have to be used says 'big stubborn' so I'm assuming that the 'big' word isn't supposed to be there.
DeleteLastly, I think that the Rhinox Chariot should be T6 or W6 like the Gorebeast Chariot since the Chariot itself can be made a lot heavier with the heavy war machine removed.
Fixed. The spelling mistake is actually in the official book itself, guess GW does not have proofreaders ;)
DeleteThe Gorebeast chariot has T5 in my version since it's just a mount swap. I prefer T5/W5, it's more consistent with other similar units.
Page 115 under Deamonkiller. Tyrant is missing a T at the end (Tyran). Thanks
ReplyDeleteFixed :)
Delete