Saturday, 14 April 2018

Warhammer: Dark Elves 9th Ed 1.02 out now!

Updated 16/4:
  • Removed Bloodwrack Medusa Starefrom combat since they was already present with Avert Your gaze.
  • Clarified City Guard rule better in the army list, made crossbows cheaper sicne they replace their spears.

This updates changes the following:

  • Khinerai WS4 and S3, 18 pts.
  • Melusai W2, 22 pts. No longer has natural armour.
  • Dark Riders 15 pts.
  • Darkshards 12 pts.
  • City Guard 9 pts, front rank has to buy crossbows at 5 pts/model.
  • Bloodwrack Medusa Stare has a 12" range, can be used in close combat, no longer has natural armour.
  • Chillblade 35 pts.
  • Gem of Spite 25 pts.
  • War Hydra 200 pts.
  • Kharibdyss Feast of Bones now causes Multiple Wounds (D3) on To Wound rolls of 6, 210 pts.
  • Fixed bug with missing Lores in the army list.
  • Any friendly Monster within 12" of Rakarth treat him as having the "Hold Your Ground!" special rule.
  • Tullaris WS7.
  • Malus Darkblade's Spite now has barding.
  • Fixed muliple bugs and inconsistencies. 
  • Removed fluff on destruction of Arnheim.
  • Removed short story about the capture of Eltharion (as it had not happened yet in the timeline).


  1. -Can't units reform in a lot of ways? How does that interact with only the front rank of City Guard having to purchase crossbows? I would say, make the whole unit be equipped with spears and crossbows for simplicity being costly in exchange for versatile.
    -Isn't accidentally looking a Bloodwrack Medusa in the eyes during close combat already represented by 'Avert Your Gaze!', either the close combat bonus of the Bloodwrack stare should be removed or 'Avert Your Gaze!'.

    1. - Yes, but if you only buy crossbows for the front rank (say 5 models) and then redeploy into ten models wide, you will still only have 5 models with crossbow, the rest will have spears. This will be clearly visible on the model anyway. City Guard are not really supposed to be more elite than other core units. Would it be better if I reworded it the same as the Lost Legion?
      - By Odin, how did I miss that?! Clearly a case of not seeing the forest for all the trees, and here I was thinking I was solving an issue... will update it ASAP.

  2. Any particular reason for the big cost increase to Hydra and Kharibdyss? Due to how LD and Monsters with handlers work perhaps?
    Kharibdyss looks and feels a bit more like some dangerous behemoth lured from the deep now. Thanks for fixing the Feast of Bones Mathias.

    Still not entirely happy with the Dreadspear vs.City Guard issue, even though you now have clarified how city guard work:

    -I don't like the "Elite" part of their lore, even though they would ofcourse be described as such if comapred to a human wachman type offcourse, but within Druchcii society, not so much...
    -Instad of forcing you to buy a minimum 5 model of repeater crossbows, I'd work out the average point cost for a 3 rank unit where 1 rank had repeater crossbows and 2 spears. This will A: Give you a bit more flexibility when deploying your unit as well as discourage the unit from being deployed in more than 3 ranks, as any following ranks would then have to pay for a fraction of repeater crossbows that they would never use. This makes sense too, as City Guard would primarily be trained to defend walls, not to go toe to toe in a melee type grind on an open battlefield. This way, you'd still consider the Dreadspears for their ranks etc, while the city guard would have some flexibility, without being objetivly better than the Dreadspears as such. I'd also consider removing the Shield option from them entirely, to distingusih them a bit more from the main-line fighters as well...

    I see you decided to increase the HE spearmen to 11 pts, which is better, but 1 pts for twice as many re-rolls on '1's, an extra rank that fights and a banner option, still kind of sticks it to the Dreadspears I think. It's better, but I have to admit that I'm a bit dissapointed in that regard.

    Still don't think the Power of Darkness spell can be justified at 8+ casting value, or 7+ for that matter.

  3. Witch Elves:

    Still think thay hae been badly nerfeddue to the current change in the meta, due to shorter chrage ranges, a significant reduction in melee power (ASF lost which also impacts Poisoned Attacks) and vastly more arrows potentially coming their way... Hard to really justify taking them as a special option at 10 points per model I think. Simply too much of a glass cannon unit that is likely to be so devastated upon reaching the enemy line (if it manages this at all), that it will most likely lose the combat, lose frenzy etc... frenzy is also harsher than in 8th ed...

    I think their point cost has to come down a bit, or they have to have a bit more of a punch if and when they manage to get into contact with an enemy unit. I suggest WS 5 and making their Frenzy permanent or giving them a 6+ Dodge save and keep them at 10 points per model. Maybe they will be fielded then.
    On a side note, I'm not a big fan of being forced to buy the couldron for every witch elf unit to make them a viable option in general.

    Black Ark Fleetmaster:

    Still very underwhelming to be honest... He's not going to be cost effective or good enough to win many challenges, so one of his special rules is pretty useless. A bit of a shame, since I think many would have liked to field such a character for thematic reasons if he was a somewhat decent lord option.

  4. Been reading and thinking some more here Mathias and I have some ideas that you might consider:

    Eternal Hatred:

    While their Hstred for the High Elves are certainly justified (from their perspective), I think it could justifiably be extended to show how they despise the other races as well. Who don't they view as lesser races and potential slaves and play-things after all... They are nothing if not supremely arrogant, prideful and hatefull in general, with history generally proving them right more often than not.

    Could it be an idea to change the Eternal Hatred rule to include a re-roll all failed Panic tests to reflect their nature more? I think it would give the decendants of Ancient Nagarythe something over their "lesser" High Elf Brethren overall, and by that I really mean making them more equal tbh. Here are some justifications for why I think this is overall a good idea:

    -The HE's Martial Prowess is objectivly better than the DE Murderous Prowess. (twice as many dice re-roolled in general). It would go a lon way towards bridging this gap to their supposedly "softer" cousins..
    -With Dark Elvees often operating more as spread out raider type armies (ur use those kinds of tactics), it would fit the army well overall.
    -It fits well from a psychological perspective as well, as it would be really hard to make someone who regularly has survived (and potentially participated in) Death Night, survived in Naggaroth in general, having both witnessed and participated in all manner of cruelty and so on, panic... Not impossible, but not very likely either... Besides, I can't imagine the Druchii would have any lesser punishments for deserters and the like than the Romans did... Probably A LOT worse...

    Some food for thought at least. Personally I think it is a good way to show that the Dark Elves are the most of the Elves, without boosting stats or something like that, which I think you'd agree would not fit at all.

  5. Melusai and Khinerai:

    While I don't think there isn't anything wrong with what you have done rule-wise or lore-wise, I have to admit that when I look at the models as well as the roles they would have in the army tactically, I must admit that I keep thinking that they might actually fit far better in a Cult of slaanesh army list (lore re-written offcourse). The snake theme fits Slaanesh for one thing. I also don't like the Bows present in a themaically speaaking Crossbow army. The Khinerai also tactically fulfill the same exact role as the harpies, which I don't quite like.

    Again, nothing wrong with what you have done Mathias, but I can't help thinking they would be a better fit tactically and thematically in a Cult of Slaanesh list., alongside the new models of Morathi...

  6. Assassins:

    While I think that removing magical weapons from assassins is a cool idea, I am (as said before) struggling with him being cost-effective as he is now. Some of my thought I have concerning him:

    -For his cost he is much to frail I think. Too much of a glass-cannon. The Skaven assassins which are really the only ones we can compare him to, has T4 and Dodge (re-roll all to hits) built-in to their cost. He is muich more of a one-hit wonder than the Skaven Assassins as a result of this and hence much more of a gamble.

    -It is hard to justify why you'd not just take a Master with and Ogre Blade and good armour etc to do the same job and also provide a LD boost to the unit as well. An assassin would come out at around 125 pts for him to be deemed useful or at least have a decent shot at a one round chance of killing an OK fighter Hero or a weak Lord. For this cost I'd rather just go for a tougher Master with an Ogre blade that has other army benefits as well. Even if the assassin is lucky and manage ti kill his target, a few retalitory strikes from the unit is likely to kill him off in return, so it will most likely end up costing you a lot just to potentially kill your target, and that even assumes that you are lucky enough to get your infantry unit into position wher eyou want it in the first place.

    On a side note, I think it is a bit odd that The Cult of Khaine produces such inferior assassins to Clan Eshin, considering life-spans, discipline etc, but that is straying off the path somewhat. I noticed that the Skaven Assassins have access to magic items though. I know you have an update in the works Mathias.


    While it might not sound like it, I actually agree that they should not require Magical weapons to fucction. I think this is the right way to go, for Skaven, Nippon etc as well.

    If assassins are going to be so frail and situational, I think their cost needs to come down a fair deal OR their potential to casue significant damage has to go up a bit.

    I suggest giving untis with the Hidden speacial rule Killing Blow and Always Strikes first in the first round when revealed. This is how they are supposed to fight after all. This way they have some chance of actually taking on an infantry type lord, even though it likely won't be high since he most likely has a good ward save too.

    Gifts of Khaine:

    Manbane: +1 towound rolls for 20 pts and this even replaces regular Poisoned Attacks??? That is utterly useless when you consider you get a +1 Strength magical weapon for 20 pts, which also reduce armour saves... Am I missing something?

    -Rending Stars: The only real use for these thay I can see is if you run your assassin alone as a single model, in which case you're taking a huge risk for very little gain... I'd rather just buy a Bolt Thrower (with points to spare) then.. Maybe if the rending Stars had the Sniper special rule, they could be cost-effective though.

    Dance of Doom: Perhaos changed into re-roll to hit rolls as on the Skaven Assassins? A 5+ Wars save on a T3, 2W character isn't really gong to save him from much, wheter it is from characters or just regular troops, wherass for 30 pts, re-rolls to hit might make a difference. I also like that it still leaves him weak to magic etc. :-)

  7. One thing you have to factor in regarding the idea of Killing Blow when hidden models is revealed is that any 6 rolled for Poisoned Attacks also removes one dice from the pool of the to-wound rolls, which means killing blows are slightly less dangerous than one might think at first...

  8. Bloodwrack Medusae (and Shrine):

    -It says LD 6 in the Beastiary and LD 7 in the army list Mathias

    -The gaxe attack should perhaps be able to be used when Marching or failing a Charge, due to the combination of her high movement, Frenzy, Low Ld, being a Monstrous Beast etc.

    -The Lore on the Bloodwrach shrine doesn't say whatthe big nirror thing on top is for, but perhaps it could be used tas to increase the range of the stare to 18" or 24", to turn it into a bit of a light artillery type of weapon? Just a though, since you had increased it substantially for the basic gaze attack earlier. :-)

  9. Have you considered that both Tullaris and the Fleetmaster both have the same kind of bonus to the combat resulution in challenges now?

    A bit better for Tullaris who is likely to potentially win the challenge at least, but it seems a bit strange that the Fleetmaster's rule is of itself perhaps better overall than the Khaine's Sacred Slaughterer special rule.

    Don't get me wrong, it's not even remotely as good on the sub-par fighter that the Fleetmaster is on a Lord tyope tier, but it is a bit strange regardless.

  10. Would you be open for including a new special character Mathias? I have some ideas regarding the leader of the Shade clans etc... Just curious if that is something you'd be open to.

    1. At the moment I've chosen to only include the official special characters (except the Ogre Kingdoms book that only had 4 to begin with), though I'm open to include more fan-made stuff as separate downloads later on.

  11. Mathias:

    Have you considered making some of the above changes to the DE book to re-balance it and freshen it up a bit?
    Just wondering since it seems you have already jumped ahead to the wood elves, with the magic system still in a bit of a rough state etc.

    1. Don't worry, I plan to have another update out for them before Wood Elves.

    2. ok. I just noticed the Wood Elf progress rose to 95%, so I was worried you were done with the DE army. Not that I don't look foreward to the WE army, but I think it would be a bit of a waste to leave the DE army as is just to get the WE army out quicker.

      That said, I think resolving the magic rule system first would be good, particularly as many elven lists across the board ofen are relatively highly magic focused.

      I hope you have some time to enjoy some beers in the sun though Mathias :-)

  12. I've been thinking a fair bit about the Corsair captain since yesterdsy Mathias and I keep coming to the same conclusion that hee will need s serious buff to remain a valid Lord option that anyone would actually consider. Either that, or reduced him go Hero lvl... I was very happy that you reduced the Beastmaster from Lord to Hero, but I'm not so sure it would fit all that well with the Fleetmaster as such, due to the power and prestiege one would need to rule such a thing as a floating city amonst arguably the cruelest race in the warhammer world... The fact that you can theme your entire army to represent raiders etc also help reinfore the fact that he is best suited as a proper lord.

    Some thoughts as to possible ways to make him a proper and viable lord option with his own strengths and weaknesses.

    M 5, WS 8, BS 6, S4, T 3, I 8, A 4 LD 10

    -no armour uprade option beyond light (and cloak)
    -no mount option
    -a special rule that either A: grants half his attacks the Killng Blow ability when usinf two hand weapons OR a special rule that allows him to benefit from the Paied Weapons rule, even if he selects a magical weapon of the hand weapon variety.
    - Have some dort of buff rule for corsairs like you already have, but perhaps buff it to incliude all corsair units within his Inspiring Presence range (which is limited due to no monster mount option etc).

    Overall I think this will make him potentially viable. More of a glass-cannon that the Dreadlord, but not so much as the Death Hag, yet he comes with his own little army buff etc...
    It also encourages one to keep him as a two weapon fighter, which is fairly uncommon for melee lords (due to there always being better options) but suits him and the models perfectly...

    I hope you consider it at least. :-)

    1. I'm not so sure it's better to have him be a better fighter than the Dreadlord though to be honest; you could already make a Dreadlord build with the same equipment but lacking his special rules, and then having the Dreadlord be worse at fighting makes that build completely useless.

      Right now the Fleetmaster is a very situational choice yes, but he is priced after his light equipment and special rules. While I do agree that the Dreadlord will overall be a better choice in most situations, a Fleetmaster with the right magic items can still be worth taking in a Corsair list.

    2. WS 8 was an oversight on my part. I meant 7, I 8.

      The Dreadlord has better armour options and mount options, so he will never be useless Mathias. A Lord lvl Fleetmaster will always be a glass-cannon option.

      I don't agree that hte Fleetmaster is worth the cost in any list as is right now tbh, especially now that the horde rule is no more, so you can't really buff enough corsairs up enough that it matters all that much.

      An alternative could be to introduce Names of power to Dark Elf characters, one which would allow a Dreadlord to become a master of a Black Ark, and then reduce the Fleetmaster to a hero lvl character. That way you can truly make a true Corsair list at least.

  13. For a bit of protection he might be given +1 to his Parry rolls if needed, but the key to making him viable when compared with the dreadlord or hag queen is really the special rule that buffs the army, as he'll never really match the other Lord optons when it comes to pure fighting power...

  14. Magic:

    1. Doombolt. I think it could be justified to have this spell fixed so that you got 3d6 hits on a 18+ casting roll. Dark Magic is supposed to be the most destructive form of magic in the Warhammer world after all... Right now I'd argue that the Warp Ligtining is superior, due to the increased range (but at a risk).

    2. The Lore Attribute: Is it just me, or is this Lore Attribute one of the worst in the entire game? Dark Magic and High Magic are supposed to be the most powerful of magics available to any race, yet Spiteful Conjuration seems to be very random and even weak when it occurs... Compared to the High Elf Lore Attribute for High Magic, it does seem to be woefully underpowered, and High and Dark are supposed to be powerful, polar opposites. What is 7 S1 hits with Armour Piercing If you roll any double when casting really gonna do? Kill one extra model on average (if not too heavily armoured and you also happen to roll that double). Tbh, I would most likely forget this rule or not even bother wasting my time rolling those dice half the time, and that is not a good sign. Could we perhaps look into changing this into something a bit more significant? Something on par with the Shield of Sapphery, but with an offensive nature to reflect the power of Dark Magic?

    1. 1. I think it's fine as it is now; I'd prefer to not be outright superiour to warp lightning. Right now, they are good at slightly different things (safety vs range).

      2. I agree, it does kind of suck. I could maybe bump it S2 so it has some chance of inflicting damage.

    2. 1. It's not terribble, but remember that Dark MAgic is supposed to be the nr.1 offensive magic in the game and it used to be 4d6 S5 hits on 24+ (which is far out of reach for any but the most potent spell-casters anyway since you can only use two more dice than your wizard lvl). I guess that my point is that nerfing this for dark magic, while retaining pretty much the same power lvl for every other lore is a bit disheartening. It used to be 4d6 hits at S5, but at a staggering casting value of 24+ when boosted, sometthing which I really don't have a problem with tbh. Not worth messing up the magic card for at least.

      2. S2 could be a solution sure, at least against T3 armies. It would still be equally miserable against all T4 armies though, which are equally as common... :-/

      Considering how it is speculated that the Dark Elves have become the cruel and heteful elvers that they are partially due to they starting to use Dark Magic in the first place, could it be an idea to change the lore attribute so that it instead modified the Eternal Hatred to apply towards any enemy within x" of the wizard instead? Sort put gasoline on the fire if you will...

  15. Could it potentially be an idea to remove the Strength Bonus from the Power of Darkness spell and instead make this the Lore Attribute, and then adjust the Power of Darkness spell accordingly (either lowering casting value OR increasing the potency of it slighty)? Just a though...

    Anther alternative could be adding some sort of damage re-rol to the Lore Attribute or even applying Hatred potentially.

    1. As it was discussed earlier, I'd like to avoid making too great a changes to the spells (at least for now). If power of Darkness is made the lore attribute (not a bad idea really), they would need another spell to replace it (I suppose Domination from 6th ed could make a return here though).

    2. I think you mistunderstood MAthias. I meant keep the Power of Darkness spell but make the Strength bonus attributye of it into the a lore attribute that replaces the spiteful conjuration instead. Just a thought.

  16. I was just making a Dark Elf army list here and noticed that the Dark Elf Master could not select a Cold One chariot as a mount option. I trust this is an oversight, as the High Elf Nobble has 2 chariot option,s 2 flying steed options as well as a regular elven steed option...

    1. Do you have an older version of the list? The Cold one Chariot is in there in the lastest version.

    2. Shit. It might have snuk in an other version. I apologize.

  17. Regardingthe Manbane issue as I've mentioned earlier, could it be changed so that it instead became a Poisoned Attacks that worked on 5+? As it is right now it is pretty garbage for the cost.

  18. Alternatively Manbane could be made so that you at least always wounded on at least a 3+. It would make the poison dangerous, but also not all that useful against armoured opponents.

    Still far better than +1 to wound for 25 pts when you instead could just take a sword of might with +1 strength, -1 armour save, is a magical attack and saves you 5 points...

    1. Easy fix for that one; I'll lower the cost to 15 pts. +1S is usually about 15 pts, and this comes without the -1 to armour saves, but always wounds on a 5+, even against high toughness enemies.

    2. That's certainly one option, but I'm not sure it is all that much better than the Poisoned Attacks special rule that comes as a default for the assassin, at least not enoug hthat you'd pay much for it. The math for that is a bit complicated though, and situational...

  19. Mathias:

    I know I urged you to finish the Dark Elf book before finishing the woodelves etc, but I'd far prefer for the Wood Elves to come first as long as the Druchii are done right for once. GW's work on the dark elves have never been all that impressive, especially when compared to the Hight Elf and Wood Elf army lists IMO.

    Previously I wouldn't have cared half as much tbh,but due to me wanting to base my Druchii based RPG/WHFB game on your 9th ed, I admittedly have much more of an interest in the Druchi book finally earning a 10/10 now. So that is why I contemplate that book more than the others right now. :-)

    1. I will try to finish the Wood Elves this weekend as it has been postponed a few times now, but after that I can psot an update for DE to fix some of the issues you brought up.

    2. Looking foreward to the Wood elf book. A buddy of mine has it, but he lost inpsiration to play it in 8th ed, as it didn't really benefit much from the meta changes back then. Not to mention it was a 7th ed book. :-)

      Btw, Have you noticed how many Dark Elvf models (from both GW and others) have a "dragonette" on them? I just wondered if one of the less popular Dark Elf Magic items could be replaced with some "familiar" type that builds on the models themselves? Not a strickty wizard familiar, since on the GW models it is actually perching on the shoulder of two of the Dreadlord models. I like building on what's there, and refreshing an arm list, beyond just adding on more units tends to refresh things and add a new dynamic to any list, which help keep things intersting (especially for those that don't want to invest in new models to play again).

  20. Seems one of my posts wasn't uploaded. Here we go again then I guess :-)

    Magic items.

    I don't know how familiar you are wth the Dark Elf model range from both GW nd Avatars of War, but 4 of these models prominently features a "Dragnette" on an infantry model (2 sorceresses fro AoW and 2 Dreadlords from GW to bespecific). Would you be open to change the Black Dragon Egg to some sort Bound spell type Familiar (Enchanted item so that non-wizard models could carry one as the GW models does)?
    I don't have any specific spell in mind tbh, but it seems like a bit of a lost opportunity not to go with it and be inspired by all these models.
    The Black Dragon Egg wasnever really that inspiring previously, and now that you get T/W increase from being mounted etc, it is even less so, even with a cost reduction... Besides, who would really waste a precious Black Dragon egg in such a manner?

  21. Some thoughts regarding the Dark Elf Book overall:

    -While new units is always good to freshen up anew list, I'm concerned too many have been added at once (goes for several army books tbh).
    The Dark Elf book has gotten the Hag Queen, the Slaves, the City Guard, the the Melusai, the Khinerai and the Avatar of Khaine added at once. I'd much prefer to actually see what was always wrong with the Dark Elf list to have been fixed than to see more new units heaped upon it tbh. I'm against any army list including elements that are there, but are not really used. That is just wasted space to me and the Dark Elf list still suffers from this. Most of this hailsfrom GW, but some come as aresult ofthe changes you have proposed in the DE army book and Rulebook as well. Here is a list of issues I can see presently:

    -No Names of Power for the Dark Elves, limits flexibility. HE could get something comparable for them as well. Nearly every army has their special list of 10 things, and I think all elves need this too. No legitimate reason not to.

    -Fleemaster in current stte is just for show. Needsfixing. Either make Dreadlords have the option to fill that rolethrough the Names of Power OR make him a Hero Option. This half Lord/HalfHero is not working on any level.

    -Dark Magic Lore Attribute is terrible (seepost abve)

    -Several gifsofkhaine need a secondlook, as many would never be selected (see post above)

    -Elven troops are not cost effective with the loss of ASF. Yes, they have a slight armour increase, but so has every other infantry unit in the game that still does not have Light Armour. ASF gone is very significant (moreon this in the last High Elf army book post and the lastrulebook post).

    -Black Dragon Egg (see above)

    -Morathi has lost a pointofToughess while on Sulephet. Considering that she is also the oldest Wizard (beside a few Slann perhaps), I think it a bit odd that she has access to so few spells. Perhaps 6 spells would be more appropriate. Lore of Slaanesh could also be very appropriate (could apply to high sorceresses as well).

    -Lokhir (fixed as Fleetmaster is fixed).

    -Tullaris: Not a big fan of the challenge rule overall, but at least he is capable of doing something with it, unlikethe Fleemaster. I think I preferred the Frenzy rule he had prevously though, as I'm a fan of special characters having more of an effect on the army itself generally speaking. Anyone non-specialcharacter can be a generic melee killer after all.

    -Khainite Assassin: Alwaysa cool option, but overall not very cost effective etc (seeabove). Suffers greatlyfrom ASF beingremoved as well, asthis also apply to the effectiveness of the Poisoned Attacks special rule. Too weak attacksto really work as intended.

    -Dreadspears: Too expensive. City Guard generally more preferable as they gain much and loose very little in comparison as the rulesare currently (more on this above). One unit shouldhave banner option. TheHE has it andit wouldalsodistinguish it more from the CityGuard.

    -City Guard (see above). Perhaps Shield Option should be removed. Then work out average cost per model for a 3 rank unit with crossbows in front rank. This way the unit is flexible when changing formation width (front rank always has crossbows) and the unit also all have spears. Theunit also become less cost-effective than dreadspears ifyou want to have maximum rank bonus etc, sothat makes it so that both units have their own place in the list.

    -Bleakswords: Not cost effective with ASF gone. Otherwise fine.

    Darkshards: Seem fine. Not the powerhouse they comparatively were to bows previously, but still a good unit. No complaints.

  22. -Corsairs: I like them. The Option to Skirmish makes them more interesting now alongside gaining the Parry special rule.

    -Dark Riders: seem fine.

    -Slaves: An interesting option. Someone did point out a flaw with one of the special rules somewhere above I seem to recall though. Still givesthe Dark Elvessomething unique to elves, an expendable unit. Will be interesting to see how this affects the DE list as a whole.

    -Harpies: Like the champion upgrade. Fear that it will be obsoleete with the inclusion of the Khinerai though.

    -Witch Elves: Now a "useless" unit. Extremely little cost effective. The drawbacks from how they worked in 8th ed are very substantial whenadded together, and nowtheyare a Special Option as well, competing with far, far better options. Someofthe drawbacksare:

    1. ASF gone affecting them a lot due to a combination of high number of attacks with poisoned attacks
    2. Frenzy is harder to restrain (No BSB effect)
    3. Infantry armour has been increased overall, and they are S3
    4. Increased missilefirein the game dueto bows being changed, with will impact low Toughness,no armour troops more than anyone else
    5. Charge distances have been lowered, which means more time exposed to missiles and spells beforethey get to spill blood in melee

    While I likethe idea of the Hag Queen making them an Core option, I still can't imagine them being used as core either, as they are way to unreliable and expensve in the first place. They need a much needed boost to justify being included, even as a Core option.

    -Executioners: Seems a tad expensive, like all elves notthat ASF is gone. Still a solid option though.

    -Sisters of Slaughter: Never tested this unit, but it seems a bit expensive at first glance. Not very hard hitting and also quite frail. Not sure what to think of this unit tbh. Suffers some ofthe same issues as the withc elves and elves in general, but maybe people will consider it now that it is a special option.

    -Cold One Knights: Seem fine to me. No issues with it.

    -Cold One Chariot: Seems fine.

    -Scourgerunner Chariot: Not a big fan ofit'sspecial rule (seeabove), but if kept as it is, I still think it is a bit too costly for what it does. I imagine not many DE players bother with this unit as is,which if it'sthe case, is telling enough in itself...

    -Shades: Seem fine.

    -Bolt Thrower:Seem fine.

    -Melusai: I still can't help feel that this unit would fit far better in a Cult of Slaanesh list. I haven't been able to find any Khainite marks on them either. The wholesnake theme seems a bit too closeto the medusa in the DE list and I also don't like the inclusion of bows in what is the proverbial Repeater Crossbow themed army. They don't really offer anything to the listthat can'talready be done better by other units already in the list either... With a change to their AoS lore, they would be really cool in a Cult of Slaanesh list I think.

    -Khinerai: MAkesthe Harpies a bit useless. Two flying skirmisher units in onelist isa bit much as well. Otherwise much the same as the Melusai above....

    -Blood wrack Medusa: See earlier comments above.