Wednesday, 25 July 2018

Warhammer: High Elves 1.1, Dark Elves 1.1 and Wood Elves 1.12 out now!

Note: these updates are for the 9th ed books.

This update changes the following for High Elves:
  • Added Elven Grace army special rule (6+ parry).
  • Removed "Shadow of the Nagashizzar" from the background section, as this cuts off mid-battle and the story is not resolved until the End Times.
  • Silver Helms 24 pts.
  • Dragon Princes 29 pts.
  • Warriors with additional hand weapons can skirmish.
  • Warriors with shields can upgrade to medium armour.

This update changes the following for Dark Elves:
  • Added Elven Grace army special rule (6+ parry).
  • Witch Elves 9 pts.
  • Cold One knights 33 pts. 
  • Bloodwrack Medusa has a spear, does not suffer any To Hit penalties with Bloodwrack Stare.
  • Sisters of Slaughter have 5+ ward in combat (4+ with elven grace).
  • Scourgerunner Chariot 90 pts.
  • Dark Elf Fleetmaster has WS8 and A5, making them better fighters than dreadlords at the cost of armour and flexibility, 170 pts. This also fits in with their background as being skilled swordsmen.
  • Toxins no longer replace Assassins' Poisoned Attacks.
  • Manbane 10 pts.
  • Tullaris now gains +1 to his combat resolution score each time he scores a successful Killing blow.
  • Spiteful Conjuration Lore Attribute causes S2 hits instead.
  • Fixed bug so Medusa have Ld7.
  • Rending Stars 25 pts.
  • Dance of Doom forces enemies to re-roll successful To Hit rolls.

This update changes the following for Wood Elves:
  • Sisters of the Thorn 26 pts, have 4+ ward by default again (Elven grace won't help them against shooting, so they have 4+ ward instead).

17 comments:

  1. What's the reason the high elf cavalry increased in price? Not that it's a huge price hike, but I'm still interested.

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    1. This is due to the added Elven Grace rule. Elven heavy cavalry are already pretty tough to kill due to their high armour saves, and now even more so with elven grace. Elven infantry is pretty easy to kill by comparison and really high in points cost compared to most other armies.

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  2. Hi Mathias, That means the Swordmasters of Hoeth gets a +5 Ward save against Missile shooted in the front arc (as for Swordmaster special rule) and the Phoenix Guard gets a +3 ward save?

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    1. No, Swordmaster are still limited to the 6+ save, this has been changed in their swordmaster rule. Ward saves are capped at 4+, Phoenix Guard do not have Elven grace for this reason (as it has no effect on them).

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  3. it's better to mention it, to prevent any possible bugs, like some things that deny ward saves still could be stopped with parry, or something that lowering ward saves could be countered with that additional +1 to ward. just note the restrictions on 4+ ward in Phoenix guard special rule, right in it's wording.

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    1. There are very few sources left in the game that would not allow a model to use their ward save, and these also ignore parry saves as is, so this should not be an issue. Tyrion has Elven grace even though he has a 4+ ward from his armour already, due to it being possible to lose that armour, and then elven grace will still be useful.

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  4. High Elves:

    -Point costs changes seem fine.

    -One of the things I can't help feel is missing in the HE list is their own "unique 10" sort of option, since most lists do have it and it brings character and flavour to every list. Same as with he DE really (the Khaine options are a bit too limiting in who can benefit from them to really apply in that sense either).

    -Still don't like the "warriors" option. Are there old models of high elves with two hand weapons even? I tried to google it, but only seemed able to find the Shadow Warrior models, which they would sort of be competing against in a list anyway. Are we talking ancient plastic models from back to 4th ed here or something?

    -Still not a big fan of the Merewyrm rules, but others might be for all I know. It might just be me.

    -P.161, "Tiranoc Chariots" headline needs to be lowered a little Mathias. Layout on the next two pages too seem a little off.

    Otherwise I must admit that the HE list looks pretty amazing Mathias. Really good work from what I, a non-HE player can see. :-)

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    1. The Warriors were a unit in 4th ed, though they never had any official models. However, as they were an official entry that does not go against the lore, I decided to keep them.

      Fixed the layout bug, thanks!

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  5. Dark Elf thoughts:

    -Sisters of Slaughter: With the Elven Grace being a parry, and their dance of deat now negating parries, I'm starting to se some potential in these girls, at least when facing other elves. :-)

    -Lowering Witch Elf cost was nice. Not what I was hoping for in a special unit tbh, but still an acceptable solution I think.

    -Spiteful Conjuration fix still remains just as useless as before against about half the armies/units in the game which is based on T4 units, which I think kind of sucks tbh. Going to be just the same waste of time to roll those dice as before when playing against these foes, which kind of doesn't really make Dark Magic be the mirror image to the powerful High Magic. The Shield of Saphery is powerful and is equally powerfull across the board regardless who you face etc. Not to mention it is not random at all. So I'm not exactly overwhelmed by this change, comparatively speaking and for the reasons above.

    -Lots of nice changes and fixes to the Khaine Armoury though. Tnx for listening to my rant there. :-)

    -Loved the Tullaris change. Would I rather like to see him provide a unit benefit like Frenzy, yes, but if that is deemed to good for some reason, I think this rule fits the character really well. :-)

    -Black Ark Fleetmaster: So I see you went with a proper lord in the end. I like that. :-) Not so sure about the A5 base stat though... It sems a bit hard to justify, as it is very rare to see +1 A on a Lord without a very good reason. It also encourages you to disregard the whole two weapon thing more and more as you increase attacks, as any magical weapon that gives other advantages than attacks become more and more powerful... We both know nearly all players will pay +20/+40 pts to see +1/+2 Strength on 5 Attacks, rather than aving an additional S4 attack... Even with the Parry from Two Hand wepons, I thin this is a far safer choise with A5...
    If I may suggest a fix though: Make him +1 I instead of +1 A, as this goes more towards an agile fighting style as opposed to pure power in a sense. Much easier to justify. Instead, make the "Show no Weakness" (says show to weakness in the army list btw) into some duelling buff rule that apply to chllenges instead. Then lower cost a little ,and I think he's going to be good and a tempting option to finally build an amry around. :-)

    -Lokhir Fellheart: Needs to be updated so he's not the worst captain any more... Made a Lord option as well. Doesn't make much sense to have the most infamous one be the lesser one of them all. :-)


    -Loved the Murderous Prowess fix

    -Don't know if you saw my comments on the Black Dragon Egg and the Gem of Spite, but I would have loved if you replaced them with the Staff that used to be one of the 6 symbols of power in the Convent of sorceresses. I think it's a shame that that is lost due to the symbolism of it (sort of like if you tookaway the runefangs from the Empre list, but to a lesser extent obviously). I'd also love to see some "Dragonette" type Enchanted item replace the Gem of Spite, due to how many models in the DE range seem to have one. If you have objections to this however, I really hope you consider it in the upcoming Magic Items book (or just put the Black Dragon Eg and Gem of Spite in there preferably).

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  6. -Still not satisfied with the Dreaspears vs. City Guard issue. There seems to be little to no reason to go with the Dreadspears (which are the soldiers) and instead go with the more flexible City Guard (city watch) option.

    If the Dreadspears got a Banner opton, that would help a little, and also help them close the gap towards their HE counterparts a little at the same time.

    The wording of the Mixed Formation rule for the City Guard is also a bit dubious, as it technically prevents you from changing number of files in middleof a game ,and I also don't like the idea of paying an idividual cost for gear for individual infantry troops.

    -Did you give some thought to my suggestion of moving the Khinerai/Melusai to a Cult of Slaanesh type list instead Mathias?

    Morathi: Still she is a bit lacking in the magical lore department overall, and I'd also consider giving her theoption of picking Lore of Slaanesh from the WoC list. But if you are planning a Cult of Slaanesh list, that particular issue might be beter resolved there instead.

    -With the inclusion of the Warriors in the HE list, there isn't really much that goes the DE way in their Core when you measurre them up to their HE counterparts overall (with arguably a few exceptions). Could a slight point cost increase and some little buff to the Bleakswords perhaps be considerd? That way the HE would retain the Spear advantage, while the DE would have the hand weapon & shield advantage. Just a thought. It would go a long way towards making me despise the warriors a bit less tbh. :-P

    I think that's it... I apologize for ranting so for the Dark Elf book, but I think GW originally did a rather crappy job of it when viewed in the light of the HE book (for nearly every editio), and I really just want to see it become a properly good book for once. :-)

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    1. - I have not really made any change to the sisters of slaughter except lowering their ward save in combat.
      - Technically witch elves are a bit too cheap, but this is probably needed to make them playable. In 8th ed, witch elves were a much better purchase that corsairs overall when both were core units, this is not so much an issue with them special units fortunately.
      - How about bumping it to S3 then, without AP? I do not want to switch around the spells too much, simply making each spell workable.
      - About the Fleetmaster, how about giving him the same stats as a Dreadlord, and then allowing him to re-roll hits in challenges? Makes him more of a duellist character.
      - All previous magic items will return in a future supplement book, so this will be included. I considered adding a dragonette as well, though I'm a bit short on space atm.
      - About the city guard, how about removing their shield option? It makes it much easier to figure out how to resolve armour saves as well if all models in the unit has the same armour value. I'd like to avoid giving the Dreadspears magic banners, as I want all the DE core warriors to be on the same level. Corsairs have magic banners instead. I could make it so that crossbowmen can be placed in either the first or second rank, allows you to reform a bit if needed. Forcing all models in the unit to pay for an average crossbow cost means they will always be at a set size, which I'd like to avoid.
      - I considered it, but as Cult of Slaanesh is just a variant list, this means these units would not see much play at all. Both units fits pretty well with the Dark Elf style of Greek monsters.
      - Morathi is technically underpriced, as she is both a decent fighter and good spellcaster. Remember that she does get +5 to cast on average, which is a lot (lvl 4 + blessing of hekarti + the first sorceress). I might make a cult of slaanesh list later on, in which case that lore will be included.
      - The only real difference is martial prowess vs murderous prowess now, with the latter being more effective on darkshards, dark riders and corsairs compared to earlier. High Elf spearmen are still slightly better than dreadspears, but they also cost more. I think it's fine that DE have slightly more troops, it makes sense since they also have female fighters in their ranks. Overall, I'd say HE probably have slightly higher trained fighters (due to living longer as fewer die from backstabbing each other), whereas DE are more inclusive but die in higher numbers. In the background, it is often mentioned how each slain HE is a great blow to them, whereas nothing similar is said about DE. I'm guessing DE are better at procreation, which would also fit with their culture.

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    2. Witch Elves:

      I agree that 9 pts/model for an elf in the Special section is a bit cheap Mathias, but I do love that you have made them a Core with a Hag Queen (personally I love those kind of synergy things for lists). as stated earlier though, I do think I'd like to see them buffed a little instead (WS 5) and not letting their Frenzy fade if they lose a round of close combat (since it is drug induced to begn with and death night tend to last all night so we sort of know that its effect would last for a timespan eqal to a whole battle anyhow). I'd consider paying 10-11 poits for that against some armies I think.

      Lore Attribute:

      I agree regarding not swithching around any spells Mathias. Just talking about the Lore Attribute here. S3 no armour save sounds better I think, even though I think it might still be a bit weak when compared to Shield of Saphery (due to it being random in nature mostly), but I think it will be a a level where it most certainly would be worth testing out.

      Fleetmaster: I'd give him +1 I to represent the agile dueling, swashbuckler type fighting style at least, but your re-roll in challenges seem perfectly fine. That and a lower cost and I think he's going to be in a state where people might want to field him.

      City Guard: Removing the Shield option was one of those things I suggested earlier. I think that would be fitting (as city watch/wall fighters) don't have that much use of a shield anyway, and it makes both the Dreadspears and the Darkshards stand out a bit more as the more professional solders that are meant for proper wars.
      Same armour value makes life better indeed. Ok, if you can place them with a bit more flexibility, that would solve things nicely. I think that would be fine Mathias.

      The HE list has 2 banner options in their core btw, and if I'm not mistaking, the Witch Elves ussed to be core and have that option. I just think it evens out the core a bit more when measured against the HE list. I was a bit surprised that the HE spearmen had the magic banner option and not the Seagaurd tbh, but still.

      Melusai/Khinerai: They fit pretty well yes, apart from the Khinerai providing yet another flying unit that might very well make the harpies obsolete. I'm a bit concerned that the DE list has gained som many units at once, but this can be looked at at a later date if the Cult of Slaanesh proves to be a popular option. I imagine most Cult of Slaanesh players will be DE collectors anyhow.

      Morathi: I see the point cost issue MAthias. I was thinking she would need to be pused to around 400 pts if buffed ofcourse. No big deal, it just seems a bit odd that she comes to battle with so little magical knowledge for who she is supposed to be. :-)

      Da/He core: Martial Prowess and Murderous Prowess, Banner options and the Fight in Extra Ranks special rule. The Murderous prowess did buff the Darkshards a litle, so it will be interesting to see if that has a noticable effect. The Bleaksword thing was no big deal, but I think it would have been cool to give the DE list a bit of their own thing at the basic core level of the most common troops. I don't think Bleakswords are used all that much in the game either tbh, but this is admittedly based on pics of dark elf armies etc, more than gaming experience.
      I'm generally against lists having "poor" options in the sense that they don't see much use due to the unit (or character/magic item) not really providing you with anything that other units can't better provide. Those models tend to just become dust collectors then, which is a shame as it undermined variability quite a lot if you play with or against the same army list a lot.

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  7. Mathias:

    Regarding the Fleetmaster:

    You could do as suggested above, but instead of a re-roll in challenges, you could go for a re-roll to hit when using additional hand weapon instead. That would make him more usefull as a general infantry killer, make him heavily incentivised to use two hand weapons and still not make him too powerful as this does not really stack well with magic weapons wtc...

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  8. What's the Initiative of the Lord of Aenarion? In page 143 is 9 but in page 208 and 219 is 8.

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  9. I know korhil isn’t using a wood cutter axe but he seems strange not having the stances like the unit does, I would only be a small improvement for him but just adds a little extra flavour!

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  10. Sorry been away, the blessing of the ancients, being conditional on being in a forest is weaker than the blessings for high and dark elves, can I suggest that they gain +1 to cast AND dispel when in a forest.
    Currently it is like the dark elf blessing but worse.
    This change would make them better than both high or dark elves but only on their own ground. Thoughts?

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    1. That sounds fair, will add it to their fix list.

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