Saturday, 28 July 2018

Warhammer: Skaven 9th Ed 1.32 out now!

Updated 13th August:
  • Rat Ogre Bonebreaker W3, A4, 75 pts (it was frankly ridiculously cheap for its stats, on par with a Griffon at barerly a third of the cost).
  • Hell Pit Abomination will only need to roll on the berkserk chart on a double 1 or double 6 (I was way off on the math regarding the chance of going berserk on any doubles), W6, 250 pts.
  • Brood Horror has Poisoned Attacks by default, S5, can take upgrades from Monstrous Arcanum, 150 pts.


Updated 1st August:
  • Fixed bug with clanrat spears cost.
  • Fixed special rules bug for Brood Horror as a mount.
  • Vermin Lords have Doomglaive by default, no longer mandatory to upgrade.

I decided to hold off on the new layout, art and background for now, and publish the latest (and much needed) rules update earlier instead, which means I will be able to finish the remaining army books sooner. Once Daemons of Chaos are finished, Skaven will get a new graphical upgrade.

The Skaven book was rightly criticized for several issues, mainly oversights on my part, that needed addressing. As such, this update changes the following:
  • Warp Lightning Cannons functions the same as 7th ed.
  • Hell Pit Abomination will need to roll for Berserk on the roll of any double again (so a bit more risky). This means you are likely to roll a double around 1 time per game, (as you probably won't be moving every single turn to begin with) though only 50% of the time it will actually be a real drawback (as in, not moving, or moving backwards). Feed does not Ignore Armour saves. Flailing Fists no longer gives -1 to Hit, is Random Attacks (2D6) instead of 3D6. Avalanche of flesh gives the Abomination Random Attacks (D6) instead of an improved Stomp. Can take Warpstone Spikes upgrade. Removed Impact Hits, 225 pts.
  • Brood Horror no longer has Stubborn, Poisoned Attacks or Regen (as none of these things are ever described in the fluff, nor do they really make much sense for what is essentially a Monster-sized Giant Rat), WS3, 175 pts. The previous version was really underpriced (based on Forge World's rules minus the impact hits).
  • Weeping World Sores is a large template that scatters.
  • Verminlords can be taken without a Grey Seer.
  • Grey Seer 220 pts.
  • Warlock Master 160 pts.
  • Night Runners have a Unit Size of 10+, are not skirmishers by default. Have the Strength in Numbers special rule.
  • Screaming Bell's Deafening Peals only affect units within 12". This makes it more balanced in bigger battles, and makes the risk of blowing up your own war machines less likely (given that you attempt to march the Bell into the enemy's side of the battlefield at least).
  • Giant Rats 4 pts (meaning they no longer are much better slaves at only +1 pt).
  • Eshin Sorcerers may be upgraded to level 2 wizards.
  • Clarified Storm Banner a bit better so that cannons and the like that attempt to fire while within 24" of the banner must roll a 4+. Cannons outside the storm banner's range can still fire onto units that are within the storm as normal (which makes sense, as a cannon ball really isn't going to alter it's course that much due to the wind).
  • Doomwheel gets Impact Hits (D6) like a normal chariot. Only rolls one artillery dice for the bolts. Each bolt causes Multiple Wounds (D3) instead of D6. This makes it somewhat safer to use, but less deadly.
  • Wolf Rats 8 pts, can take various upgrades.
  • Plague Furnace wrecker attack is no longer a Stomp, instead works like in 7th ed, but only to the unit's front.

This should address pretty much all criticism I found from the previous book. Warp Storm and Cloud of Corruption are still very similar (both based on official spells), but they are in different lores, and as such can be taken by different wizard. The Hell Pit Abomination has been nerfed yet again, but it's somewhat cheaper now.

59 comments:

  1. Since Stormvermin are now core, are they still meant to be able to take 50pt magic banner?

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    1. Stormvermin have always been a core choice, and as they are the only elite infantry the Skaven have, they kind of need to have a 50 pts magic banner option :)

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    2. I thought they were special previously :P, I see why you gave them the 50pt banner though.

      Rest looks good.

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  2. -Have you considered giving the Warlock Engineers and Warlock Masters the same unique special rules (Artillery Master/Master of Ballistics and "Stand Back, Sir!" though the last one would be renamed) that Empire and Dwarf Engineers have? It would then be balanced out by reducing the number of Wizard Levels Warlocks have. Warlock Engineers start off as non-wizards and then can be upgraded to Level 1, Warlock Masters start off as Level 1 wizards and can be upgraded to Level 2. To fill in the gap of Lore of Ruin users, add the Apprentice Greyseer, a Level 2 (or if upgraded, 3) Hero wizard that uses spells from the Lore of Ruin or Lore of Plague. This is based on Children of the Horned Rat where The Chosen caste start off with a Magic Characteristic of 1 and will inevitably have a Magic Characteristic of 2 when they take their Dark Lore.
    -Perhaps do the same thing to Plague Priests and Plague Lords where Hero ones can be either Level 1 or 2 and Lords can be either 2 or 3.

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    1. I might just do something like that. Including an Apprentice Grey Seer is not a bad idea either.

      Plague Lords and Plague Priests already has those rules though.

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    2. I second this. A lot. I have just discovered this project and I already love it. As a fluff lover, the only thing I miss in a first look to the Skaven book (my favourite army) is any rule that gives the Warlocks Engineers some Engineer feeling (and maybe just a little splash of Warlock). Oh, and I miss Clan Thematic lists too (I was a fan of sixth edition armies), but I can see that in an expansion.
      Anyway, great job!

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  3. Assassins:

    I noticed that they can still take magical items, yet the one kind of magical weapon that would fit them well from a lore perspective (Weeping blades) are not available to them... Could this perhaps be changed to only allowing them acces to Weeping Blades instead? Deathmaster Snitch has these, so it would be a quick fix.
    Seems odd that they have access to magical items when dark elf assassins don't as well.
    But you know I'm advicating for skills over tools when it comes to assassins in general, wanting to see them have ASF when coming out of hiding and relying more on poisons etc.

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    1. The reason assassins have access to magic items is because they do not have a dedicated sections like the Gifts of Khaine. They are not allowed to take magical armour though, so you'll probably find that they will mostly be taking magical weapons. If necessary, I could limit them to taking magical weapons only.

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  4. Brood Horror seem to have Stubborn, REgen etc still listed under Mount options p.167.

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  5. Clanrats can be armed with spears for free. But spears for slaves have points cost. It seems strange.

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  6. Seems you missed some points cost issues on the mount options for Lords and Heroes Mathias, in particular regarding the Brood Horror.

    Not sure I like that you can have Lvl 3-4 Wizard Warlock Masters tbh. Ikit Claw being a rare exception, but they are supposed to be more mad scientist and less Wizards. Kinda hard to imagine Skaven with their typically short life spans mastering it all. Not saying ther aren't exceptions, but still. My feeling on it anyway. Would have preferred to see them capped at Lvl 2, then work more like a Dwarven Engineer instead.

    Regarding the Mainstay unit exception for Plague Monks, Night Runners, Giant Rats etc, ther eis no set definition of what a "Clan Pestilens Character" is, when an Eshin Character is, etc... Yes, we old timers obviously know, but for new gamers it could be a potential issue.

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    1. Warlock Masters were allowed to be lvl 4 in 6th ed, and Engineers could be upgraded to a level 2, so they are not that different from other wizards. I would be okay with limiting them to a lvl 2 though and giving them an engineer rule instead though.

      In the bestiary section for each unit, it says what clan they belong after each troop type. It was unfortunately not enough space to add this to the army list as well.

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    2. You already have 2 lvl 4 wizard opions (grey seer & verminlord), in addition to Ikit Claw etc, so it's not as if the list will be lacking in the magical department anyhow. :-)

      Perhaps a Warlock Master could allow some "Skryre" units to shift category from Rare to Special, to entice players to go for him as well, or some other synergy effect.

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    3. Maybe, I'll consider it. I meant to say that the Warlock master would be limited to lvl 3 though, making Ikit Claw the only lvl 4. Though then Ikit would need an engineer rule himself...

      It might be better to look into giving them upgrades similar to 6th ed instead, or including things like the Doomrocket and the like an mundane equipment for them.

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    4. It would be a bit more work admittedly, but also a whole lot cooler and more inspiring if the "mad scientist" feel was done more with, both from a lore perspective and from a gaming perspective. Warlock engineers are engineers firsts and warlocks second when al is said and done.

      A list of clan Skryre items does have a lot of potential for a lot of fun though...

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  7. I suggest adding a Forge World Exalted Verminlord (currently known as Warpgnaw Verminlord). Without it, the bestiary looks slightly incomplete.

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    1. I don't think that's necessary, as rulewise it's not really much different from a normal verminlord at all. Much like Exalted Greater Deamons, it's better to just use the model as a regular verminlord.

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    2. Well, then I have an alternative suggestion. Return of the "generic" verminlord. IMHO, both the Exalted Verminlord and the old miniature are not fully suitable for displaying verminlords from the End Times.

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    3. How's that? Two of the End Times Verminlords have Doomglaives like the Forge World and older GW model, so they could easily be used to represent either of those choices.

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    4. Both have additional equipment (spike-fist and orb), which Forge World miniature lacks. Though this can be solved by conversion, of course.

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    5. Fair enough, I do like WYSIWYG for my models. I've updated the book now :)

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    6. Thanks a lot.

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  8. Glad to see instead of going through all that extra trouble for the filthy vermin you'll instead get us the noble Dawi sooner. ;)

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    1. Aye, it will be a glorious reckoning ;)

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  9. A couple of questions: what will be the difference between warriors of chaos and champions of chaos?and what happened with "the art of Warhammer" of the updates list? I am very interested in a recopilation of ilustrations.

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    1. Champions of Chaos is a collection of special character that would be too long to fit into the WoC book.

      Art of Warhammer has been postponed for now, unfortunately I think it might be too large to actually publish on what remains of my Google Drive account. We'll see in the future though :)

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    2. I hope to see it someday haha, thank you for your answer and congratulations for your amazing work.

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  10. am I right, that Hell Pit Abomination can use it's regeneration only in the end of Close Combat, after all attacks were resolved? so it heals it up only if it is still alive?

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    1. Yes, that's correct. If it's dead, it can't come back (well, unless you roll lucky on Too Horrible to Die...).

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  11. - also why you did not add a shield/HW option to Stormvermin, seems pretty lore friendly, there are plenty of examples of such load-outs for them in art, video games etc

    -HPA lost 1 wound or it's a bug?

    -Wolf Rats WS4 (creature fights like a stormvermin) dunno is it OK

    -Doomwheel S5? just curious why

    and just wanted to say a HUGE THANK YOU for all your brilliant armybooks, it is like to live in a world, where WHFB is played and supported once again!
    thanks man!

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    1. -does the rust armour saves against the Blade of Realities?

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    2. - I considered it, but the models have always had halberds rather than HW and shield, and I'd worry that people would just use them as a tank unit rather than shock infantry, which removes a lot of the point of using clanrats.

      - Yes, but I will likely return it (I found the missing wound under my bed when I was vacuuming ;)

      - That's from their official rule, otherwise they would be be too similar to giant rats.

      - It has S5 like all heavy chariots (the only ones with S6 are the likes of Steam Tanks). S6 grinding attacks was a bit much on top of its other rules.

      - Yes, but it is destroyed right after.

      Glad you like it!

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  12. Mathias:

    Would you at some point consider making a sort of "Regiments of Renown" type book? I'm thinking a combined allies type cost for a Hero + Unit combination that comes with a pre-determined number of models, banners, hero with items etc...

    I'm sure the community would have loved to help submit ideas and proposals for your evaluation as well. :-)

    Just a thought for the future when the big army lists are done and you are considering making some obscure list that only a small handfull of people across the globe will ever consider collecting... :-)

    I know it was the wrong place to mention this, but I don't know if your notification thing work again now so.

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    1. Maybe, I've considered making rules for units like the Death Heads Halberdiers and the like, so we'll see in the future :)

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  13. Some ideas based on Clan Skryre magic weapons from 7th ed.
    - Add option for poison wind globadiers allowing bombardier to take single Death Globe. It requires roll before throw. On roll of 4+ Death Globe works as in 7th edition. On roll of 1 Death Globe explodes in bombardier's hands. On roll of 2 or 3 template moves d3" in a random direction from the selected location.
    - Doomrocket as a Weapon Team

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    1. I think those weapons would be better served as upgrades for the Engineer, which they will probably get in the future :)

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  14. Warlock Master:

    I've been giving him some more thought Mathias, and here is what I've come up with so far:

    -I think he should be limited to Lvl 2 Wizard, and only the Warp Lightning & Warpstorm spells. The lvl 1 only having the Warp Lightning signature spell.
    These guys are not supposed to be Wizards in the traditional sense, and I think this would reflect this well.

    -Give the Warplock Master a +1 to BS (yes, I know skaven sight is poor at best, but I think it's fair to assume some type of optical enhancement being used here).

    -Allow the Warlocks to have armour, up to and including Heavy Armour.

    -For every Warlock you bring, you may take one Doomwheel, Warp Lightning Cannon or unit of Stormfiends as a Special option instead, which does not count towards the normal maximum number of such units.

    -Add unique Skryre only items for Warlocks.

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    1. Hmm, maybe, but should Plague Lords be limited to lvl 2 then, and Plague Priests lvl 1, seeing as they are already decent fighters?

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    2. I think lvl 2 would be more than good enough for them tbh. It would also help to sort of "build up" Skrolk as a special character, in the same way as Ikit Claw will by for Clan Skryre. The list already has 2 good lvl ¤ Wizard options, and lvl 3 isn't far worse, so I see more benefits to diversifying a bit more than to have a bunch of wizards of high lvl. My view on it anyhow.

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  15. I see you have left Stormvermin with their 50pt Magical Standard allocation. Is this intentional as being able to take a 50 point banner in a Core slot is really powerful. I believe they are the only Core unit that can do it if I'm not mistaken.

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    1. Well, the Skaven is pretty unique in that their elites are pretty bad compared to other armies. If the Stormvermin does not get a 50 pts banner, then what unit in their army would?

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    2. True, didn't realise how lackluster their Special choices are until you pointed it out.

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  16. In regards to the wood elf army book, I feel like some of the named characters don't really life up to their reputation or their point costs. Araloth being unbreakable by himself is absolutely useless as nobody in their right mind would use him that way. He has no magic weapon just a regular streghts 4 spear and his bird. Moreover I feel like the wood elf mages should have access to the lord of heavens in edition to the other lores. The lore of athel Loren still feels rather weak especially compared to dark and high magic, the latter of which is too strong as it is in my opinion. Lastly I would like to see the wardancers being able to disrupt ranks as it fits really well with their agile fighting style. They just dance around and over any dwarven shielwall and cause confusion in the ranks.

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    1. Also why not make the Wildwood rangers slightly more expansive and strenghs 4? Both the executioners nd the white lions are also strength 4...

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    2. Araloth is pretty meh, I agree, though I did not want to change his rules too much from the offical onces. I'll look over him and your other suggestions in the next update.

      As for the Rangers, WE already have quite a lot of S4 model with their tree spirits, I don't think it's really necessary to have more S4 Elves in their book atm.

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    3. WE mages already have access to the lore of heavens but you forgot to include it in the bestiary. I still think the rangers would make a fitting glass cannon unit as of right now they don't really contribute much swing as they are meant to go after monstoumo infantry and bigger stuff but lack the strength to do so reliably. I agree that changing the named heroes too much can be a bad idea but too often they end up being useless or nowhere near point efficient. Ariel suffers from the same problem to some degree. She has lots of cool rules but the lore of athel Loren is just not that good so you end up paying almost 600P for some mediocre support. If she had the lore of life with lore master instead things owuld look different but it doesn't make much sense if you consider the fluff.

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  17. i guess 8th ed ravenings etc are dead...
    very sad about it :(((

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    1. No, they are not dead, that's why I have the current poll to garner how much of an interest there still is in 8th Ed. As of right now, 75% prefer 9th Ed, compared to 60% at the last poll. I still intend to publish the rules updates for 8th Ed, but they are on the backburner to the 9th Ed books for now.

      That being said, until the 8th ed updates are out, you could still use most of the 9th ed rules for 8th ed. The changes inbetween are pretty small, with only a few rules being marginally different.

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    2. 8th ed already exist as far as all the GW army books go, so I'd personally hope that 8th ed was more or less dismissed, with the exception of your own army books that add to the world Mathias. If so many are preferring 9th ed already, I don't really see a valid reason to spend a lot of time for an 8th ed version of GW's own armies. Better to look foreward I think. My thoughts on it anyhow.

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    3. As somone who plays 8th exclusively (and mines the 9th edition books for rules until the 8th edition ones are out) I'd personaly hope that the 8th edition books remain at the very least in their ravening hordes form. 8th is much easier to get lapsed or ocaisional players to engage with as they already have a grasp of the rules system.

      End at the end of the day, a WAP ravening hordes list is infinitely better to play with than the old 8th edition books from GW. Im not advocating that you spend anywhere near as much time on them as the releases for 9th, but the bare bones releases you have been doing are excellent.

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  18. Mathias:

    Is the Skaven Assassin & Master Assassin not supposed to have the Hidden special rule?
    I see they have the Scout and Killer not a Leader special rules, so I'm just wondering. :-)

    btw, could at least a +1 to hit on the turn when revealed in close combat be a thing at least? Ideally, I'd like to see ASF as it feels more fitting, but that way ther would be something at least. Being a sneaky killer really has very little effect otherwise.

    Regarding the BRB:

    -Seems you forgot to implement the Volley Fire for Javelins :-)

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  19. Mathias:

    I see Dwafs are soon finished. Gonna be intersting. :-)

    Just a question. I see Vampire Counts are next, but would you consider doing the finishing touches to the Skaven, Dark Elves and rulebook etc first?

    I'm having some concerns on how the Ustable special rule now works (I'll post in the forum later) and I'm also re-reading what Vampire Lore that I can so that I can help provide some input etc.

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  20. One question. In the bestiary section says that Verminlords use spells from the Lore of Ruin and/or plague, but the Army List section doesn't specify which lores a basic (non-upgraded) Verminlord can choose from. Is it like a Greyseer?

    Also, Assassins and Master Assassins entries in the Army List don't include the Hidden rule, unlike the bestiary.

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    1. In fact, the Special Rules from Assassins are different between the bestiary and the army list... which is the right one?

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    2. Verminlords use Ruin and Plague for the generic one as well.

      I will fix the bug for the assassins. The bestiary is the correct one.

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    3. Great! Thanks a lot! I dont't know if blogger notifies new comments, but I've already written some in the last Ninth Edition, Dwarfs, Beastmen and Bretonnia posts...

      And again, great work and sorry for my bad English.

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