Saturday, 19 September 2015

Plans for upcoming Skaven book

While I originally planned to finish version 1.0 first and then makes changes based on feedback as necessary, I figured it might be better to get the community's input right away and save the trouble of having to go back and redo a lot of things later. After all, I'm not trying to be like GW here, so what's the point of keeping the community in the dark really?
I have tried to not go overboard with changes since most of the Skaven book is pretty solid, and as such I will for the most part just streamline some of the rules to follow the basic BRB and rebalance points cost, as well as fixing those damn slaves!


Planned changes:

  • Scurry Away! uses Swiftstride rules.
  • Slave units are limited to the number of Clanrat units (mainstay rule).
  • Slaves rolls 3D6 for all Psychology tests and Break tests, and discards the lowest result.
  • Slaves no longer "explode", but causes hits on units they flee through only.
  • Units that have their own movement and shooting rules will for the most part use rules from BRB, like Doomwheel, Abomination, Weapon Teams etc.
  • Ratling Gun fires 3D6 shots, rather than rolling individually.
  • Warplightning Cannon roll one artillery dice x 4 to determine range and strength, fires like a laser rather than bounce (6th ed rules).
  • Doomwhell rolls one artillery dice to determine range (x2) and strength.
  • Abomination goes berserk on the roll of a double, not a triple.
  • Reworked Dogde mechanic for Eshin units (re-roll to hit instead of ward saves, no special ones for champions).
  • Plague Monks are a Core choice (thus allowing for pure Pestilens lists).
  • Night Runners are skirmishers (thus making them actually useful).
  • Weapon Teams and Jezzails have 2W.
  • Weapon Team ward save replaced with Look Out Sir.
  • Warlock Engineers will be wizards by default, does not buy extra equipment (less special rules to keep track of).
  • Snare nets removed.
  • Lore of Ruin and Lore of Plague are separate lores. Lore attribute for both is rolling 13 for casting results in IF. Grey Seers can still use spells from both at the same time. Curse of the Horned Rat is the 6th spell from Lore of Ruin. Warpstorm and Weeping World Sores added.
  • Wolf Rats added.
  • Master Mutator added.
  • Eshin Sorcerer added. Buys spells rather than rolling.
  • Master Assassin added.
  • Warlock Master added.
  • Plaguelord added.
  • Nurglitch added.
  • Brood Horror added.
  • Lore of Stealth added.
  • Snikch is a Lord choice.
  • Rat Ogres 35 pts.
  • Jezzails ignore long range, champion has Sniper rule.
  • Globadiers 9 pts, no longer wear heavy armour. Removed volley from the back and life is cheap.
  • Weapons team no armour, 5 pts cheaper.
  • Censer bearers 1A, 13 pts.
  • Cheaper Special characters.
  • The following magic items will stay (not including those that are on SC's): Fellblade, Blade of Corruption,  Rust Armour, Warpstone Amulet, Warpscroll, Skavenbrew, Skalm, Brass Orb, Sacred Standard of the Horned Rat, Storm Banner. Essentially the most iconic and classic Skaven items that has been part of their rules since 4th ed.
  • Lots of new art and background material will be added.
  • Fine, Stormfiends will be included. I still don't like them, and they will be severely nerfed (but useable).
What other changes do you feel should be included or altered?

    55 comments:

    1. The Skaven have 13 spells to coincide with the superstition that 13 is an unlucky number. Because of that, I think its a bad idea to add a whole new lore because that would bring up their number of spells to 21.

      Reduce all units that don't have ranged weapons or an option to take ranged weapons to BS 2. In most armies, the leaders have +2 BS over their basic subordinate so dropping a few units to BS2 is just for consistency.

      'The Dreaded 13th spell' could be made the signature spell of both the plague and ruin rule with the stipulation that only lords can take it. I would also change the spell so that it will turn core infantry into clan rats, and special/rare infantry into either Stormvermin or Night Runners (the player that owns the unit chooses which). The transformed unit will keep any equipment and special rules that it has, does not gain the special rules of the unit it is turned into and will not change sides but still counts as destroyed.

      Lastly, could you explain what all those new units you intend to add are? I have no idea what the Nurglitch is and the Master Mutator is probably a lord version of the Master Moulder (which I'm guessing you're moving into the heroes section) but more clarification is nice. I also wouldn't make the Warlock Engineer automatically start as a wizard so it can be kept at a low base price.

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      1. Nurglitch is a special character from the 6th edition Lustria supplement, and the Master Mutator is a lord choice from the Clan Moulder variant army list at the back of the 6th edition Skaven army book.

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      2. It will be rather difficult to keep their 13 spells though, because they have 2 lores, and the dreaded 13th does not really have anything to do with Plague. Plus, the Lore of Stealth is kind of a must for Eshin, they would not use lore of ruin like Grey Seers, it's their own kind of magic.

        Skaven have always had BS3 though, so I'd rather keep it that way. I believe Dwarf characters are also only BS4?

        I think the dreaded 13th will work with just clanrats, it would require too many different models on hand otherwise.

        If you search for each of the unit names on google, you should find what they are really quick ;)
        But in short, they are lord levels for the heroes, thus allowing for pure great clan lists, as well as a new SC (from Lustria) and monsters from Forge World.

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      3. I feel unnecesary so many characters. Remember the special characters. I know, armies only composed by a great clan are cool, but you can have that without 23423 options.

        Take a look of my characters:
        Lords:
        Queek, Mors
        Thanquol and Boneripper, council of Thirteen
        Throt the Unclean, Moulder
        Deathmaster Snikch, Eshin
        Lord Skrolk, Pestilens
        Ikit Claw, Skryre
        Warlords, warlord clan
        Grey Seers, council of Thirteen

        Heroes
        Tretch Craventail, Rictus
        Skweel Gnawtooth, Moulder
        High executioner Veskit, Eshin
        Chieftains, warlord clan
        Masters, Moulder
        Assassins, Eshin
        Plaguepriests, Pestilens
        Warplock engineers, Skryre

        8 Lords, 8 heroes, less redundant options. If you want your great clan commander, just pick the special character.

        And Mathias, respecting your idea of eshin mages I added the option in Eshin magic items for turn the assassin into a lvl 1 wizard of lore of Shadows (yes, we don't need a new lore for only 1 character, don't you think?) and other item to turn the master Moulder into a lvl 1 wizard of lore of beasts.

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      4. Well, without the lord level great clan characters, they only have 2 generic characters, wizard and fighter. The O&G book have 9 non-SC lords already, and that's with most of them fulfilling the same role (wizard or fighter). So 6 different choices is not that bad considering it works just fine in the hero section.

        Lore of Stealth is just for one character yes, but that can be said for for most armies that only have one type of caster and one lore anyway. Or DoC/WoC, where only nurgle sorcerers can use lore of nurgle for instance.

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      5. And what about use the Eshin sorcerers like the old 7 edition necromancers? With acces to 3 spells and they know one spell and you can pay more to choose more spells. They would be different and with very specifically roles and combos, as you want with Eshin folks. Precision and a good plan, not random spells eventually powerful and maybe too difficult to cast for low level wizards. We must remember the Eshin sorcerer probably isn't alone and he can't capitalyze all magic phase

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    2. I think you should include the End Times stuff too, including the Stormfiends. Firstly because the End Times Skaven miniatures look very nice and it would be a shame that we couldn't use it.
      Secondly, imo it makes more sense to add units that already have miniatures than adding units that have no miniatures.

      If you don't like the Stormfiend rules or think they are overpowered you should change the rules, point costs and etc??, which is very easy for you.:)

      First post here, so I am going to take the oppurtunity to post a bit about Bretonnia:

      Would it be possible to add a Pavise option to the Men-at-Arms? I.e French Pavasiers:
      http://claymorecastings.co.uk/image/cache/data/Pavasiers-800x800.png

      A Pavise: Shield, against shooting +2 AS instead of the normal 1. I find this rule better than yours which is just 5+ against shooting and no +1 for close combat.

      Why the Pavise rule, because the GW Men-at-Arms actually have pavise shields and imo should be reflected in the rules.:)

      Hippogryph knights should cost 100 points. Empire Demigryph knights should cost 70 points.

      I really love you work, now with the official end of Warhammer your work is even more important!

      BUT did you take a look at Furions work? I really like his changes (magic lores, magic items, units/points cost and etc..)

      I.e a simple change to spears:
      Spears +2 initiative and always fight with an extra rank.

      Please check it out.:)

      http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=106&t=130276&start=0

      Thank you.

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      1. When it comes to the Stormfiends, Skaven already have Rat Ogres and weapon teams. Do they really need Rat Ogres with weapon teams attached as well? While I normally would like to include units that have models already, some of the End Times stuff are just not compatible with the rest of the warhammer game. I'm not going to include 3 different Maggot Lords in the WoC either, it's just redundant.
        Apart from that, I don't like neither the concept nor the models themselves in a fantasy game, they are just too much. If they would be included I would beat them with the nerfbat so hard it's not even funny. I'm not entirely opposed to including them if that's something people want to see in the book, but judging from what I've seen most people say online, they are not very well liked from neither an aesthetic or gameplay perspective.

        The pavise in this case would be a tower shield, which I will include in the 8,5 ed update to the game. +1 AS in combat, +2 AS against missiles, no parry. I don't want pavises to be superiour to normal shields.

        I think 100 pts would be really over the top for them, they are not twice as good as a pegasus knight. Demigryph will go up in price a little bit though.

        I've seen some of Furion's work, like the spell changes, though points cost for magic items seem to be really off in some cases. Might snag a few ideas from the magic section though.

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      2. Why not? GW made models for it, it are nice models. I don't see the problem in adding it with more toned down rules. It gives more diversity in army building. At least that is what I think.
        Aesthetics are subjective. I really like those models. The rules are indeed way overpowered.
        I would change unit size to 1, rare choice. Up toughness to 5 and let it cost around 180-200 points.

        The pavise should only be superiour against shooting compared to a regular shield.

        The tower shield sounds perfect, hopefully men-at-arms will have it as an option, as it reflects their shields better.

        Maybe 100 points for hippogryphs is to high, but we are talking about a "flying" fear causing unit that will really do some serious damage when attacking in the flank/rear. The unit has way more staying power than pegasus knights thanks to the 3 strength 5 attacks per hippogryph.
        I think the unit is double so good as Pegasus knights against the right targets.
        Maybe 90 points instead?

        The lore of the lady is also really, really good. Maybe up the casting values with 1 or 2?

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      3. Personally, I'm a fan of the Stormfiends aesthetically and lore wise, they make sense. And like all skaven items, they had a lovely propensity for their strengths to have catastrophic results. The ogres still weren't heavy hitters.

        Most of the Skaven's source of damage was from items that had a high rate of misfire, taking out a chunk of your army with you.

        Regardless, these units helped beef up an army that you could charge in and smash apart.. if it hadn't killed itself already.

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    3. Hello
      Maybe it's a touch premature to ask this, but: is there any chance that we might see Fimir in either the Beastmen or Warriors of Chaos books? Now that you're including them as neither a separate army in their own right nor as part of the now cancelled allies supplement it seems there's no place for them at present. According to the monsters chart from Forgeworld Fimir are closely allied to Chaos, and fluff-wise they would certainly fit in with both Beastmen and Warriors of Chaos.

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      1. I'm not so sure about that. Fimir live in swamps and marches, whereas Beastmen tend to live in the forests, so they don't fit too well as far as geography goes. I might still pick up the Fimir list at some point and give them a smaller army list to use though.

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    4. Hi Mathias. I'll tell you some of most importants change I done in my skavens rework.

      Lower Weapon skill (and ballistic) for everyone except Eshin and Moulder. Slaves WS 1 BS2, Clanrats WS2 BS2, Plague monks WS2 BS2, Giant rats and ogre rats still have WS 3 (because they're animals), skryre troops like jezzail, warmachine crew, engineers and weapon teams WS2 BS3, Night runners WS3 BS3 and gutter runners WS4 BS4 (because they're the only who has a real training), stormvermins WS3 BS3 (elite troops).
      This is game changing in change the points and you should give them, as i do, some tricks to hit harder (for characters, warp weapons +1 strenght and tail weapon +1 Attack) or reroll (with moulder packmasters, magic and some items).

      All the other changes are for this one.

      Stormvermin moved to Special units. They're an elite unit and you have a lot of core units (at least in my rework, in yours probably more adding some forgeworld units), slaves, clanrats, giant rats, plague monks and night runners, weapon teams. In my rework the stormvermin has Strenght 4 (S5 with their halberds) because they're the biggest and strongest skavens in the lore. And they're Stubborn with Queek, Tretch, Warlord and Chieftain because they're bodyguards. At 8 points each.

      Other important thing. All Moulder units have Frenzy (even the hellpit abomination instead being inmune to psychology) and Regeneration (6+, but you can improve it with the Skalm, now is a Moulder special item). All are bloodlust animals improved with warpstone. But they don't have strenght in numbers because they're are primals and if the enemy hits hard in their muzzles they just run. And obviously you can't join them with no-moulder characters.

      The weapon teams are free. If you want one, just buy one. They're no longer attached to units, but they has look out sir if they're near. And they causes panic when they dies (and that's why you don't want spend all your core points in weapon teams). I'll dont give them 2 wounds, and not for the jezzails 2. They only have 1 wound because they need 2 crew to operate, if one of the skavens dies the other one just flies or try to hide under the corpse because he can't work a ratling, mortar or jezzail alone. With heavy armour and look out sir save 4+ they're hard enought in my opinion.

      My ratling works normally with range 18, long range penalties but making double shots (for example, you had 3 and 5 with the dices, you do 16 shots). Trust me, isn't overpower when usually hits at 5+.

      Slaves can't be joined by characters, don't causes panic and you can treat them as enemy units everytime you want, has an slaver as a champion (with Leadership 5, but if he dies for any reason the slaves should make a panic test every turn, and if the unit flee the slaves slain the slaver with a backstab) in the last rank but costs 3 points with hand weapon (the clanrats costs 4 with shield, 5 with LA). They need to be nerfed.

      The censer bearers has WS2 as filthy rats but has T5! As berserkers who dont feel the pain, at 15 points each. They're hard being skirmishers and hit hard too, but units with WS5 now maybe are too much for them.

      The globadiers does 1D6 hits but wound at 5+ only (coherence with the mortar). And if they had a 1 rolling to hit they suffer 1D6 hits too, but they only wound himself with 6.

      The champion of the jezzails costs 15 points but is an Sniper.

      Gutter runners only costs 10 points with throwing knives and 2 hand weapons but you can pay 2 points to give them poisoned attacks or slings. You can't purchase both. And of course they can be Ambushers. And iI didn't mentioned, but obviously i removed ALL ward saves of Eshin clan. Like you did with the ninjas and shinobis.

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      1. Other important change. The Vermin Lord. In my rework the vermin lord is a Rare Unit, not a character. But you only can pick one Vermin Lord for every Thanquol/Grey seer you purchased before as a commander. They has some options and can be powerful wizards but you want that? Because you has at least 1 grey seer in the army too... Decisions...

        The hellpit hamster can move with his random movement without change his facing and if she chages with that weird movement don't has benefits for charge but at least isn't blocked by a flying or fast chavalry unit all the game without fight. That was a mistake.

        And for last, i add a new rare unit, a Eshin unit (if you want do a full eshin army you should have some rare units, right?) The Eshin triad. You probably remember them from Storm of Chaos. In my rework they are like gutter runes (only 3 of them, of course) with M6 WS5 BS5 S4 T3 W2 I6 A2 L7, skirmishers, scouts, always strikes first, poisoned attacks, 2HW and throwing weapons, they're 3 champions but fight together in challenges and earn 50 aditional victory points for each character slain, and they has a combined technique: the member of triad has +1 to hit and the enemy has -1 to hit them in close combat for every member of the triad above the first (it means +2/-2 if they're 3, +1/-1 if they're only 2). That last rule is for give them some durability. They can ambush for free and can swap their additional weapons, throwing weapons and poison for Doom stars (throwing reapon, multiple shots x3, multiple wounds 1D3).


        I can talk you about the characters, spells and magic items if you want more feedback. I did a lot of changes in my rework, we probably tested it more than 20 times with different units.

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      2. I considered lowering both WS, S and T for the Skaven overall, but I feel that just too big of a change. No units in the game have WS1, not even snotlings or zombies, so I think it would be rather strange. WS1 would also mean they every unit hits them on 3's, including units that really would be weaker than them. It's same with BS, it makes they smaller missile units practically useless, and that's not were the problems with the Skaven book lie.

        Stormvermin are not really work taking as a special unit, because they simply have special rules that makes them elites. I don't think Stubborn fits with Skaven unit except monsters, I can hardly see Skaven fighting to the death to protect their master (loyalty and Skaven does not go hand in hand). Stormvermin are still smaller than most humans too, so S4 feels a little too much for them imo.

        Frenzy for Moulder units will be included in both Rat Ogres and Wolf Rats, but I left it out of Giant Rats who have fight in extra ranks instead.

        I think free weapon teams would be a bit much, even if they cause panic. They can still cause a lot of damage, even if they are frail. They have 2W for a bit more staying power, since they are two crew. Normal war machines can still operate with only 1 crew, so this follows the same logic (or lack thereof).

        Firing 16 shots in this case feels a bit much, especially if they are free. By comparison, Empire pays 90 pts for 10 handgunners shots, with only slightly longer range. An average of 11 shots at 50 pts is rather good.

        With my planned update, Slaves take LD tests on 3D6 instead, meaning they are less reliable than Clanrats (but still dirt-cheap) and cannot be counted on to pin down a unit with re-rollable Ld10 as much. Good idea about not letting characters join them though, I'll add that.

        T5 also feels rather excessive, Monks already got T4 because they don't feel pain, censer bearers are not that much different. They also have both frenzy and hatred to reflect that.

        I actually kept the Dodge, but reworked it. Champions have the same save as the unit too for consistency.

        It's an interesting change with the Vermin Lord, but historically, they have always been characters, so I'd like to keep it that way. I will include a paragraph that you can only include them with Grey Seers though (since they are the ones summoning them). It limits them to larger battles, but then again, that's where you'd expect to see them.

        I thought about including the Eshin triad as well, but there's not really any fluff on them, and it would give Eshin 3 units that are essentially the same. That said, it's a unit I could definitely see being included down the line.

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    5. Liking lots of this. Can't wait.

      Heartfelt Plea 1: Please keep the Stormfiends! Yes they need a nerf but the feel like the (il)logical next step in Skaven ingenuity.

      Idea: Plague Monks could stay special unless army general is from Pestilens to then count them as core?

      Heartfelt Pleas 2 and 3: Keep Warlocks as starting as non casters to represent their tinkering and include some more of the magic items to turn them into role specific snowflakes such as the sniper / lightning Caster / lunatic. Yes, yes, I know magic items are on their way out but I miss them from those early editions and the last iteration's items were all suitably Skaven. Even the Doomrocket (yes it needs tweaking) should stay, I reckon despite it being the totem of Skaven hate.

      Having played for 30 years I love the Skaven and would love to see as much retained as possible. Balance be damned, let us blow ourselves up :-)

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      1. I have been looking at a way to fix the stormfiends, but there is a bit of an issue with a few things:
        1. They have S5, but the weapons they use should only be S4, including close combat weapons (like the weapon teams).
        2. Their weapons are just a repeat of Clan Skryre weapons, but they would be placed in the Moulder section of the book, before Skryre, which is confusing.
        3. They are a mishmash of two great clans, which takes away from the individual clan feel.
        3. They were created during the end times, and all army books are set before the storm of chaos.

        So right now, it still does not look like they would fit into the book in a way I would be happy with.

        As for the Warlock, they will be Lvl1 by default with warpstone weapons, and can upgrade to halberds. So they will be more like 6th ed. I know a common complaint is the suicide-warlock at 15 pts, so this makes them more of an investment if you still plan on doing that. Doomrocket has to go too I'm afraid, they already have 10 magic items like the rest of the books, and the brass orb works in a similar way.

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    6. Nice ideas.
      Hi!
      First comment here also!

      Nice job on updating armies and bringing to life those that weren't present!


      From my POV a mainstay rule would be welcome.
      Price reduction or rework in weapons team
      Rework the Doomwheel and Abomination.
      Slaves: Do not benefit from the General's LD. Add a Slave Master LD5 to keep them in check. Characters cannot join this unit.

      For close combat Skaven:
      - I will study to bring back Assasins as Backup elements in Clanrats/Stormvermin units as they were in 4/th edition. Call them Assasin Apprentices or such and give them a low profile as they had in the past.

      - Giant Rats with poisoned attacks or Frenzy or even with toxic fumes for them (Pestilens upgrade) but heavy toll in own deaths each turn. Or even include a Bomb Rat (close combat phase: 2d6 S4 or S5 strenght hits distributed as impacts between the units in CC).

      - For Moulder: Mixed units. I mean Giant Rats with Rat Ogres included (1 up to 3, causing 1d3 hits per Rat Ogre at the end of the turn on their small brethren)

      Character New Options:
      Grey Seer: Albino Guard (Stormvermin with WS5 S4) Stubborn if Grey Seer is within the unit. Only available if a GreySeer is the army's general.
      Warlord: One Clanrat unit may carry a Magic Banner (up to 50 points)


      Also, as new feasible units:
      - Carts or chariots pulled by Rat Ogres (1 or 2 RO) slow and sturdy, with 2 or 3 Moulder crew ratmen.
      - Skryre Grenadiers: Heavy Armour, Skirmish and acting as Poison Wind Globadiers, but if they impact it becomes 1d3 S4 hits with AS allowed.
      - Diseased Monks: Plague monks carrying the Plague. Being affected by the Plague spell and at the end of the Skaven Player turn suffer their effects. Also and as soon as they touched any unit or flee through friendly units, you contagious them triggering the spell (Biologic Weapons).

      Crazy Ideas from the Underground:
      - Batrider clan (Flying unit)
      - Or even new moulder beast (RatSpiders, like the classic dryders from D&D, but with a twist a Skaven as upper torso and a Spider body for the lower part) :-)

      Hope it inspires you!

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    7. Will there be Chimaerats?!
      Please add Chimaerats, they're too awesome to be squated!
      Oh, and if there's any need in monster units - the Hell Pit Army got that covered IMO

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    8. Chimerat is now a Hell Pit Abomination.

      About Stormfiend, create a annexe about The End of Times.

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    9. Chimerat is now a Hell Pit Abomination.

      About Stormfiend, create a annexe about The End of Times.

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    10. Chimerat is now a Hell Pit Abomination.

      About Stormfiend, create a annexe about The End of Times.

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    11. Vassily-l. Labrakos23 September 2015 at 18:10

      Suggestion From me:
      -Strength from numbers and Steadfast won't stack
      -Slaves start with improvised weapons(WAB one handed weapons that improve the enemys armour by one)
      -Misfiires from the ratlingcannon Are determined by number of 1 of the hit dice
      and now my question:
      - will you include the SoC- clan eshin, lustria clan pestilens and the hellpitlist?

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      1. Parts of these list are included, Eshin Sorcers from SoC and Nurglitch from Lustria. Looked at the Hell Pit list, but it mostly contains units already included in the book, and the Abomination covers the big monsters already.

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    12. Hey Mathias, is it possible that you make a separate link from your 8th edition books? That is, will you keep all the books updated to their 8th edition and have a download link for them--and a 8.5/9th edition update link for the same books separate from the 8th edition books?

      Is Skaven and Beastmen being updated to 8th first? Thanks for the time Mathias. I need to send you some more pics of my armies.

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      1. We will see, I had planned on having them both be compatible with each other. 8,5 ed is really just a patch, so all units are worth taking.

        Yes, Skaven and Beastmen are first out. Almost finished with the Skaven rules now, then I just need to sort out the background section.

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      2. I'd say do more than just a patch and then tweak the army books for that edition. Most of the tweaking would be likely about some point cost. Then release them separate from the 8th edition books.

        I don't see 8th edition to be actually broken that it even needs a patch in the rulebook. I'd say it's more worth to make something more or then only tweak the army books. Or you can always do both if you've time and interest :D

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      3. The plan is to do both; fix the main issues in the BRB (which won't really effect points cost) and fixing the army books themselves. My books are intended to be compatible with 8,5 already, the official books needs some tweaking (not a huge amount), and then I will also add new units and background for them.

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    13. Question re: Araby Lords. Surely it should be the Caliph issuing Holy Commands, not the Sultan? I mean in the real world a Caliph is supposed to be a religious leader, far more than a Sultan.

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      1. Ingame, the caliph is the random-name of the lord tier human of the army, it could be any other name, it could be Amir, Bey, Malik, Shah... The Sultan is who don't fight, he points his finger and his people do his desires.

        But yes, maybe Sal ah din could be the Caliph and the actual Caliph could be named as Amir.

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      2. This question came up a few years ago. The supreme rule of Araby is a sultan in the official fluff, hence Sultans are a little higher in the hierarchy. Sultans fits the image of "important guy on a throne" better than the Caliph, but both are Lords in the official fluff. I feel. Historically speaking though, Caliph would be the religious leader yes.

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    14. Regarding the Dark Elf update in the future, how would you fix Harpies?

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      1. I haven't looked into DE too much yet, but they will definitely receive a pretty big pts drop to make them worthwhile.

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      2. Give the Dark Elf versions WS4 and Always Strikes First to separate them from the chaos variant since the ones that follow the Dark Elves are said to be former witch elves given flesh or manifestations of Khaine rather than children of chaos.

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      3. IIRC, them being witch elves was just part of their myth. Biologically speaking, I don't think there's any difference between DE and chaos harpies. Will look into it though.

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    15. Hey Mathias, I like the updated Chaos Dwarf book so far, but I am looking at the Army Lists, and there is no place in the book that states what Hellbound does. Was this in a previous edition?

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      1. Yes, that was a rule in the older version that I removed since it didn't really add anything to the game. I'll remove it from the army list as well, apparently forgot that.

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      2. And the steam engine? Is that in the same boat as well?

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      3. Yes, artillery trains are a cool idea, but not something you really see on the battlefield.

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    16. Looks pretty cool so far! I'm really looking forward to the cheaper characters (since in most of my lists, one would take up the entire lords and heroes allowance) and the cheaper weapon teams will be a nice change too. I'm especially intersted in what the new units will be like. The only things I find a bit weird are the Deathmaster being a lord (since he's more of an assassin than a leader) and 3D6 psychology tests for slaves (since this may just make kind of useless if they run away all the time) These are just nitpicks however. Looks great so far!

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      1. The Deathmaster was actually a Lord in the original rules and 6th ed, so I'm really just bringing that back. Plus, Master Assassins will be a new lord choice (thus allowing for pure Eshin lists), and we can't really have Snikch being weaker than one of those, now can we? ;)

        As for the Slaves, they will as unreliable as the Lizardmen are reliable, meaning they still have a decent chance to stand firm in large numbers, but they can't really be relied upon to do that as much (and really, who would trust a slave?), making Clanrats more useful.

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      2. Look....it MUST BE A LORD.....that's the reason why i am gonna use this book...it's called personalisation. THANKS!

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    17. "Slaves rolls 3D6 for all Psychology tests and Break tests, and discards the lowest result." and why not for all the army! (^_-)

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      1. Well, they already have low leadership to reflect this. I will let Strength in numbers affect all Ld tests though to keep it simple, that way you won't have to deal with 2 different leadership values depending on what kind of test you take.

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      2. The Lizardmen have already a correct leadership but have cold-blooded rule for reflect more the idea. To my opinion that could be the same for Skaven.

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      3. The Lizardmen have already a correct leadership but have cold-blooded rule for reflect more the idea. To my opinion that could be the same for Skaven.

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    18. "Slaves rolls 3D6 for all Psychology tests and Break tests, and discards the lowest result." and why not for all the army! (^_-)

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      1. Well, if it was given for the entire army, then Strength in numbers is a bit of a pointless rule really. The idea is to fix Slaves having the best Ld in the army when near the general, thus making clanrats a more attractive choice.

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    19. Question: is the pdf for Norse the latest one? It doesnt include your updates from August 14. (Points of magic items, signatur spell fury instead of hatred) etc.

      What would be the correct one atm? Thanks!

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      1. Very strange, must have been an issue with the upload. I've fixed that now.

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    20. Mathias, any update on the Skaven book? About ready to release it?

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      1. Check "current progress" at the top of the blog post, I update it regularly ;)

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    21. If you do add brood horror please do not nerf him to terribly hard. I don't use slaves or stormfiends but have been using a brood horror of and on using the stats from m.a. .i like him better than the hellpit abomination. He goes better with my plague theme. If anything just bump up the cost and make sure he stays a rare. And if you could please let plague claw catapult and the spell bless with filth stay. I use those things to fight high elves. I hate high elves

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