A bit later than planned, mainly due to the insane number of units WoC have (which is rather ironic considering how few Mortal units they had back in 6th ed!). I've done quite a lot of reorganizing in the army list, with chariots and Knights all being core units (like 6th ed) and MC has been moved to special (like several other armies have). Likewise, all monsters have moved to rare. WoC now sports a total of 8 core units, 13 special units and 8 rare units!
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- Chaos Lords 180 pts.
- Daemon Prince 250 pts.
- New Hero: Marauder Chieftain
- Chaos Warriors I4, 15 pts (meaning that Elves are still faster, as they should be, and keeps GW's from being too good in 9th ed).
- Marauders I3, 4 pts, cheaper GW's and flails. May take javelins/throwing axes.
- Marauder Horsemen I3, have shields by default, 13 pts. May take bows to make Hung cavalry.
- Forsaken are Skirmishers have have HA, 15 pts.
- Chaos Chariot and Gorebeast chariot merged into one Core choice.
- Chaos Knights moved to Core, 32 pts. No longer cause Fear.
- New Unit: Cultists.
- Chosen 17 pts. Only rolls 2D6 on the EotG table.
- Skullreapers/Wrathmongers added. Have 2W.
- Putrid Blightkings added.
- Skullcrushers moved to special, 68 pts.
- Rot Knights added.
- New Unit: Soulflayers
- Flayerkin added.
- Chaos Trolls can take Marks, 40 pts.
- Dragon Ogres 53 pts.
- Great Spined Beast added.
- Chaos War Mammoth added.
- Chaos Spawn moved to special, move 3D6.
- Chimera moved to Rare, 200 pts, no random attacks.
- Dragon Ogre Shaggoth 225 pts.
- Chaos Giant 175 pts.
- Slaughterbrute +1A, no longer have Extra Claws, 220 pts.
- Boosted the lore of Tzeentch Strength for spells, replaced warpflame with flaming attacks like 7th ed.
- Daemon Prince can choose LA or HA, not chaos armour.
- Sorcerers can choose LA, HA or FPA.
The lore of tzeentch needs some changes, it is still nearly useless
ReplyDeleteYou might be right, been reading quite a bit of complaints about that one. I will look into it.
DeleteWhy did you remove Chaos armour from the sorcerors?
ReplyDeleteYou ca still upgrade them armour up to heavy armour (4+ armour save). So they didn't lost anything, it's just optional now. Not all the chaos sorcerers had chaos armour like armour on them.
DeleteAh yeah it isn't the same in the 8th edition!
DeleteNone of the Chaos Sorcerer models actually wear full plate, hence it does not really make sense that they would have the same save as a chaos lord. Due to the number of different models available I've instead given them the option of light/heavy armour so you can pick an armour that goes with WYSIWYG. In 8th ed, they lose 1 pt of armour yes, but they are also cheaper.
DeleteHmm, I mean what defines a Chaos sorcerer model? I mean I can pick any Chaos hero/lord miniature and say this is my sorcerer and you can cleary see he is wearing Chaos armour.. .
DeleteI mean, the latest 8th Empire Greatswords are imo only wearing halfplate, but they do get the option to have full plate upgrade.
I think basing the armour option on the look x mini is a strange method, as you don't know what mini the player will use to represent unit x.
I based on pretty much all the available Chaos sorcerer models out there, none are as heavily armoured as a Chaos Lord, and using a Chaos Lord as a sorcerer is not really WYSIWYG. But if you want, I can add in Chaos armour as an option, that way players can choose the type of armour that fits their model best.
DeleteRegarding the Empire though, the 5th ed models had LA, the 6th ed models had "full" plate (HA in the 9th ed version) and the 8th ed models have medium armour, it all depends what models you are using.
If you can that would be great, if necessary price Chaos armour for a sorceror high enough, so it isn't a auto include.
DeleteWYSIWYG is important, but Blighkings, Wrathmongers, Skullreapers also have Chaos armour and aren't covered in plate too.
Ok, just noticed that you removed Chaos armour from Blightkings and such..
DeleteDoesnt make sense, because those are the chosen of chosen ones. It would be ackward that they suddently would drop the Chaos armour.. .
GW mini's aren't really consistent with the looks of the miniatures and their stats, but I am certain that the elite infantry of Chaos should have Chaos armour. I think Chaos armour is more than only armoured plates.. It's a mix of hardened skin/armour and etc... .
V9 supplement still use Chaos armor for units other than the lords and Heroes.
ReplyDeleteYeah, noticed that too. Will fix it soon.
DeleteV9 supplement Chaos sorcerer lord entry states that they can be mounted on a Juggernaut of Khorne.
ReplyDeleteHellstriders have 2 attacks base? Yes! Finally they are worth taking (orders 5) ah.... please tell me that wasn't a typo
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm afraid that's a typo... can't really make them cheaper, they would be underpriced then.
DeleteOh well. Got slaneshi horsemen for running path to glory now.
DeleteWould it be possible to have an option to upgrade Chaos Knights and maybe the 3 MC versions to Chosen, granting the special rule as well as WS6 and I5. It doesn't make much sense to me that the higher status mounted units aren't able to have the blessings of the gods. Maybe something similar to how the Inner Circle Knights work in The Empire, where they become special choices if upgrades to Chosen.
ReplyDeleteI did consider making Chosen more like 6th ed rather than their own unit, but then the book would need to be rewritten a bit. I'll look into it for the full version.
DeleteI too miss the Chosen Chaos Knights, although they are not now quite the iconic "ultimate shock cavalry" they where way back then.
DeleteMaybe a solution could be to add the option to Chosen:
The entire unit may be mounted on barded Chaos Steeds.....20 points per model (or whatever amount).
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ReplyDeleteI have a ton of suggestions for Chaos Warriors.
ReplyDelete-Since you're not bound by copyright you can make representation of Malal on the tabletop. Mark of Malal grants Killing Blow, Daemon of Malal grants re-rolls of 1 To Hit and To Wound and Hatred (Daemons), Forsaken of Malal has Fight In Extra Ranks (1), Spawn of Malal has Hatred and Giant of Malal has +1 Movement.
-The Mark of Nurgle should grant +1 toughness instead of making the model -1 To Hit. This goes with the fluff where worshipers of Nurgle stop suffering the harmful effects of his plagues by making worshipers harder to kill using the Lore of Nurgle. Daemon of Nurgle should be what makes a model harder to hit.
-Skullcrushers, Gorebeast Chariot Riders, Soulflayers and Rot Knights should be WS6 and I5. I imagine them as being on the same level as Chosen but instead of being given an augmentation from Chaos every battle they get a high-quality mount.
-I've seen a lot of conversions of Chaos Chariots and I would love to see those become legitimate. There should be an option to replace the steeds with Steeds of Slaanesh, Flesh Hounds, Rot Beasts or Discs of Tzeentch if the Chariot has the appropriate mark.
-Similarly, it should be possible to replace the Gorebeast of a Gorebeast Chariot with a Chaos Spawn, Juggernaut, Fiend of Slaanesh, Plague Toad, Beast of Nurgle or Rot Fly if the chariot has the appropriate mark.
-Perhaps reverse the effects of the Warpflame special rule where passing the test causes wounds to be suffered (a single wound for single model units) and failing the test gives benefits. It would be hilarious for Tzeentch to turn toughness against a unit and especially useful against his mortal enemy Nurgle.
-Daemonblades should simply grant an additional D6-1 attacks that must be rolled for each round. That would make the benefits more consistent between various character models.
-Chaos Knights are the equivalent of a lot of Army Books elite cavalry models that are in the Special section so they should go back there. Skullcrushers, Rot Knights and Soul Flayers are very high-tier units so they should be in rare.
-Chaos Chosen should have the option to take Marks of Khorne or Nurgle removed. The implication is that Wrathmongers, Skullreapers and Blightkings are Khorne and Nurgles chosen.
-Similarly, Blightkings, Wrathmongers and Skullreapers should have 1 wound and 2 attacks base.
-Perhaps move Dragon Ogres to Rare. Ogres and Trolls upgraded with the most expensive upgrades can't even reach the base cost of a Dragon Ogre.
-The Disc of Tzeentch ridden by Soulflayers has the statline of a Rotbeast. Soulflayers should also be normal cavalry since Discs are war beasts instead of Monstrous beasts.
-Chaos Steeds are S3 instead of 4. You are also missing the profile of a Warhorse in the mounts section.
-Characters with the Mark of Nurgle should be able to ride a Rotbeast.
-Gorebeast Chariots should be given their original profile and special rule back. They should also be a separate entry from Chaos Chariots and moved back to special.
-Chaos Charioteers have 3 attacks each which I'm assuming is a typo.
-Chaos Chariots should be in special. Gorebeast Chariots should be in rare.
-Shouldn't Soulflayers have Lances instead of spears?
-Since you made it that cavalry can wield two hand weapons and great weapons with no problem, I would say make it that the various Chaos Cavalry have a hand weapon base and a mandatory upgrade of either a shield (1pt), an additional hand weapon (1pt), Lance and shield (3pts), Great Weapon (2pts) or EHW and shield (3pts).
Giving blightkings, skullreapers, wrathmongers only 1 wound and only 2 attacks would make them instant unusable.. the models are on 40mm base and don t fit on 25 base.. it would be a serious handicap compared with regular chosen.
DeleteImo the End Times rules for those units are perfect.
They seem to have two wounds each in the profile. For 34 points I think they're strong enough ^_^
Delete- Malal has not been part of the fluff since the 80's so I'm not really interested in bringing him back, it would feel very shoehorned in imo.
Delete- I considered that at first, but that would put Blightkings at T6(!). So I nerfed to T4 now, which gives them T5 with MoN. So consider it fixed.
- Not so sure about that WS6 is so high I think only chosen should really have it - that's part of what makes them Chosen.
- That would be too much for just one unit, the chariot having Mark options is enough.
- I'm going to skip Warpflame altogether I think, and just give Tzeentch flaming attacks like 7th ed. The lore needs buffs, warpflame is not really a good thing.
- Will make it so Daemonbaldes gives an extra D3 attacks instead, short and simple.
- Chaos Knights were Core in 6th ed, same for Chaos Chariots. WoC has so many other elites in the special section already (and so many rare units already for the MC to go there). As for WoC having elites as core, that's kind of their thing. Ogres have MI in Core for instance, unlike other armies.
- I don't have their fluff on hand, to verify that, but that would be rather weird for Slaanesh and Tzeentch to be the only gods with normal Chosen.
- Blightkings etc with 1W and 2A would be terrible due to their base size.
- Dragon Ogres and Shaggoths in the same section does not really fit though, the shaggoth is the rarer of them. Special is fine for them imo.
- Gorebeast Chariots are so similar to normal chariots that it might as well be an upgrade.
- Soulflayers have glaives, so it's actually more similar to a halberd. But since they also have shields and use them as spears in the art, spear seemed like a better fit.
- Chaos Knight models all have shields, so I don't think those weapon options really fit for them. Only a few units actually use two handed weapons while mounted.
While Malal hasn't been around since the 80's GW have tried to resurrect the concept with "Malice" for example the chaos space marine chapter "The sons of Malice" who specialize in fighting other chaos space marines. tbh its not really something for the RH book but perhaps a supplement much later on.
Deleteyeah it hasn't been in GW material since copyright issues but tbh the concept of a chaos void is pretty neat, fluffy and fit in wh world well. Really loved it at the time and wouldnt mind seeing it in, there is definitely room for it.
DeleteSo, nerfing the ET units to 1W/2A and removing the option for Chosen to take Marks of Khorne/Nurgle? The only difference between that and outright removal of them is that in the first option the Blightking, Skullreaper and Wrathmonger names still exist (as no more than fancy names for Chosen of Nurgle and Khorne).
DeleteJust two typos: Chaos Warriors are 16 points each on the book, not 15. Also Chimera and Great Spined Chaos Beast are defined in the profile as Chaos Giant, don't know if this is intentional
ReplyDeleteChaos Warriors in 9th ed have a 3+ save, that's why they cost more.
DeletePutrid Blightkings are listed as having a severe case of lack of arms issue.
ReplyDeleteEquipment: Equipment:
Two hand weapons
Great weapon
Shield
Heavy armour
I dont know if they can just pick for free or what the idea was, also they have Mark of Nurgle and on their stats they both have Toughness 5 and 3 attacks, so do they have Toughness 6 and 4 attacks granted that they pick Additional Hand weapon?
PS: Love the flayerkins !
They have all these weapons, and can choose which one that want to use. They have T4(5), meaning their normal T is 4, but because of Mark of Nurgle, they have T5.
DeleteIs it right that they have the troop type: infantry. Shouldn't they be montrous infantry?
DeleteThey have never been MI, they are rather infantry with large bases due to their poses, but they are not ogre-sized per say.
DeleteSo the right base for them (as infantry) would be 25x25mm?
DeletePs: Thanks for your great work.
What do you think of adding rules for the Varanguard?
ReplyDeleteMaybe for the full version, otherwise I might make Expansion rules for them.
DeleteYou forgot the Darksouls
ReplyDeleteThey might be added in the full version instead, I have not decided on their rules yet.
DeleteI think I saw the Slaughterbrute have LD 10 in the 9th ed book. It had 5 originally.
ReplyDeleteWith the changers for Monsters, maybe the Chimera and the Slaugherbrute's natural LD score need a second look?
hi,
ReplyDeletei think mark of nurgle is too powerfull and unbalanced for only +2pts.
what do you think?
Hi, do you mean for the normal Chaos Warriors, or some other units?
Deletenormal chaos units... warriors with T5.. ogre with T5..
ReplyDeleteYou are right about the Ogres at the very least, those should be 6 pts/model. As for the Chaos Warriors, it might be needed to bump it to 3 pts/model, though that is stretching it as far as usefulness is concerned. I will make it more expensive for the Chaos Knights though.
DeleteI can’t seem to find the rules for the upgrades on the chimera or manticore. Could these be added please?
ReplyDeleteThey will most likely be added in the full release of the book :)
DeleteOk I found this on full website version. So my question of Chimerae upgrades was answered, but....
ReplyDeleteFound a huge problem with Chaos War Mammoth. So it uses a random chart for its attacks. So the chart against smaller models like cavalry and smaller on a roll of 3-4 it gets 2d6 stomp attacks. The stomp special rule can only be used against infantry, swarms, and warbeasts.... so yeah that's a thing.
Since because monsters are the only unit type that get stomp I feel they can or should be able to stomp on anything smaller then them. So anything except other monsters and maybe chariots?
That's a leftover from 8th ed, it will be fixed in the full version.
Delete