Sunday, 12 June 2016

Beastmen 8th and 9th Ed updates out now!

Updated 16/6

This update changes the following:

  • New unit: Ramhorn (large monster covered in shields and spikes with beastmen on top, like a Stegadon).
  • New unit: Hag Trees (based on an old White Dwarf article)
  • New unit: Cockatrice (from Storm of Magic)
  • Gors back to WS4 by popular demand, have shields by default, 8 pts.
  • Bestigors have halberds, may swap for GW's for 1 pt.
  • "Ambush on the Elsterweld Road" short story added.

I did not add mutants or Gaves, since the background mentions them often becoming Ungors or Gors. Background for the Ramhorn and Hag Tree was written by Stefan Wolf, who co-wrote Pirates of Sartosa with me. Many thanks!

23 comments:

  1. -In the table of contents, the Rare Units sub-section in the Beastmen Army List section has an "Error! Bookmark not defined."
    -What the heck is the picture on page 22 supposed to be? It looks like a beastman head was crudely stitched onto a human body that's missing both of its arms and has a shield floating in space.
    -In "The Dark Forest" on page 23. Jabberslythe has been misspelled as Fabberslythe.
    -In the 7th sentence of the 2nd paragraph of page 26, Gors has been misspelled as Gars.
    -Centigors should not be forest striders. They are literally described as being too clumsy and ill-coordinated to live among densely packed forests on page 28.
    -In the second paragraph of page 31, the 3rd sentence is very confusing at its end. It says "forcing their foes to retreat to the are not safe".
    -In the 2nd paragraph of the Troll Country section on page 33. It lists Ogres as being a creation of Chaos which is false in the face of all other lore.
    -Since you made Gors WS4 again, both Bray-Shamans and Great Bray-Shamans should be raised back to their original WS.
    -Page 53 describing Gors still lists them as WS3.
    -A Cockatrices Petrifying Gaze is listed as having the "Heroic Killing Blowm" special rule. Also, a Cockatrice should only be able to target a units flank or front with a petrifying gaze since you have to look at it to be petrified.
    -Perhaps the Aura of Madness of a Jabbeslythe and the Constant Wailing of a Hag Tree should affect friendly units as well. I see no reason why it wouldn't except perhaps gameplay reasons.
    -Hag Trees should have Natural Armor (3+) just like Treemen. Maybe movement 3 as well because why would an uprooted tree have any degree of speed?
    -Shouldn't Gorgants have Thunderous Charge just like Razorgors? Because they are very big Razorgors.
    -This is a nitpick but why is Khazrak BS1?
    -Malagor should be Toughness 5 since he is a Great Bray-Shaman.
    -Shouldn't Ghorros be S4 T5 instead like a Wargor? Though personally, I would make him a lord and give the option for Wargors, Beastlords, Bray-Shamans and Great Bray-Shamans to become Centigors.
    -Ungrol shouldn't have Ambushers by default, simply the option to become an ambusher.
    -Traitor-Kin should only affect units with a leadership less than 7. I would assume it wouldn't affect dragons or Sons of Ulric.
    -Savage Dominion should have a weaker (maybe 8+) version that summons a Cockatrice, Preyton or Chaos Spawn. Cygors and Hag Trees should also be added to the list of creatures that can be summoned with the stronger version.
    -The Rune of the True Beast should affect War Beast and Monstrous Beasts as well as not affecting beasts with a leadership above 6.
    -The Stonecrusher Mace should have Multiple Wounds (D6) against shrines as well.
    -The main story about Gorthor describes him as fighting on foot so it should be an option for him.

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    1. Your version of Ambushers allows a unit to choose to ambush or not so just give Gors, Ungors, Ungrol and Ungor Raiders Ambushers by default.

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    3. -Beastlords should be able to ride Gorgants, just like Warleaders from Albion.

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    4. - Fixed.
      - It has arms, they are bent backwards a bit and in the shadow.
      - Fixed.
      - Fixed.
      - Fixed.
      - Fixed.
      - well, CHAOS Ogres are kind of the creation of Chaos.
      - Fixed.
      - Fixed.
      - Fixed.
      - Gameplay perspective, it makes them a pretty big drawback to the beastmen army since they will be near their own troops most of the time.
      - 3+ save added. M3 makes them too slow compared to the rest of the army though. They are already slower than Treemen.
      - Yes, I've added that. Also renamed them Ramhorns, since those are already mentioned earlier in the book.
      - Because he only has one eye ;)
      - Fixed.
      - He is S5 in the 7th ed book, centigors are not the same breed as gors.
      - I think Ambusher is fine for him, gives him a more unique role.
      - That would make it too limiting, I think it's fine as is.
      - Maybe, but there's a bit of a lack of space on the page to add all those monsters. Hag Trees are not really beasts either.
      - Same as Traitor-kin.
      - Fixed.
      - Fixed.

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    5. -The short story in the tiny box on the Ramhorn page incorrectly refers to ramhorns as Gorgantgors.
      -Razorgors do not automatically have Frenzy so Ramhorns shouldn't as well. In addition, since a Ramhorn is ridden by Bestigors it should have access to Chaos Marks. Reduce the cost of a Ramhorn by 15pts and give each mark the cost of the same mark on a character.
      -I see no reason why Gorthor can't choose to ride a Razorgor chariot instead of a Tuskgor one.
      -The Preyton has the Impact Hits (D3) special rule which is now universal to monstrous beasts.

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  3. -I've been thinking about how all Monstrous _______ have Fear due to their size and Monsters have Terror due to being even bigger. In the game, Monsters aren't scared of other monsters due to both being of the same size but what about things that are scary due to something else like the mind-corroding influence of Chaos giving Chaos Daemons fear and Phoenix Guard being scary due to how unafraid they are. There should be a modification to the unit types section and the Fear special rule so that Chaos Ogres still fear Daemons (especially ones of equal size), Arachnorak Spiders are scared of Bloodthirsters and other things. For example, a Bloodthirster would cause terror due to its size but an Arachnorak Spider would only feel fear in the face of it due to the Bloodthirster being a Daemon. I would also remove how Terror causes a -2 Ld penalty.
    -Personally, I think that creatures in the Vampire Counts army book that aren't undead or are vampiric shouldn't have the undead special rule. Vampires, Necromancers, Vargheists and Varghulfs are a lot more stable and self-aware than typical undead and therefore, have to deal with the typical morale problems that living people deal with and won't drop dead when put under stress. Ghouls, bats and Crypt Horrors are still alive and should have to deal with morale. I know that when unstable takes affect, it is explained that ghouls, bats and crypt horrors simply leave the battlefield but what if the unit is completely surrounded and therefore unable to flee? By relation, a unit that is being attacked to the front, flanks and rear should be unbreakable because there is nowhere to flee to.
    -Since you have added Strength Bonus and Charge Bonus to the list of special rules, perhaps a rule could be added called Brace Bonus which grants a strength bonus on the first turn of combat to units being charged to the front. Then give spears wielded by infantry Brace Bonus (1) and Pikes Brace Bonus (2).
    -I really think the rules for ridden monsters from 8th edition made the most sense. The fact that the little general riding the griffon is wearing full plate armor won't make the griffon any more resilient while shooting the riders dead is a valid tactic in war. Even under the previous system, riding a monster still significantly increased the resilience of the character since the tougher mount would absorb 2/3 of all attacks. Though I would make it that monster reactions are only done by monsters of Ld6 or less since I don't think there are any non-sapient monsters that have a leadership of 7 or better. It's assumed that a dragon ridden by a High Elf Archmage will still stick to the battleplan despite his partner being shot off.

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    1. -Another thing, how many special and rares an army can take should work on a multiplication system instead of an addition one. That would mean that Grand Armies can field 4 duplicate specials and 2 duplicate rares and Legendary Armies can field 6 duplicate specials and 3 duplicate rares. It's not too much different than your current rules and makes more sense in terms of progression.

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    2. -The fear changes are interesting, but I don't see any great way of implementing it as there are so many factors governing what makes something 'scary'. Maybe having a fear(X) system where you are affected by fear(source) - fear(target). Fear(1) works like 8th edition fear, Fear(2) like 8th edition terror, Fear(3) and onward inflicting -1 Ld.
      -Ghouls and
      -While Brace Bonus works thematically, I really don't it is necessary to improve the game. Spears and pikes already benefited from 9th edition, and are most common on relatively cheap tarpit and/or anvil units. Buffing them further would need to result in a points increase, which could severely impact the efficiency of such units. Additionally, fights in extra ranks is a rule tailored for large units that want long combats, a strength bonus against charges deviates significantly from this role, and could lead to a case of units being too overpriced to do either of their two roles correctly. I think it is best to, at the very least, only give Brace Bonus to specialized units, not every run of the mill pole-arm unit.
      -I agree that the Undead rule doesn't make much sense on a few units, but it adds a sense of coherency to the army. I don't really have a strong opinion on this though, I'm not sure whether the added 'realism' outweighs the simplicity of the current system.
      -The monster rules follow pretty much the same pattern as the undead. Simplicity and ease of use > realism, it's up to each player to decide which they value more.
      -I agree wholeheartedly with multiplicative duplicate choices, as it allows themed armies to be played in higher points ranges, which makes for some really fun games.

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  5. I just was reading through the rulebook, and on page 13 it says "If at any time a model's Strength, Toughness or Wounds are reduced to 0 or less by magic or a special rule, it is slain and removed from play."

    So, if I'm running an empire army with a Level 2 of Death and a Level 2 of Shadows, and I target a 50+ unit of Skaven Clanrats, with Soulblight followed by The Enfeebling Foe, and I get a 2 on my D3, I've just wiped out that entire Clanrat unit. Is that correct?

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    1. Both those spells state: (to a minimum of 1).

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  6. Ahh! Thanks! I thought there was some ways I was reading that wrong as it seemed way too powerful!

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  7. Alright, I'll bite: what the heck is a Gave? I've at least heard of mutants before (kinda sad they didn't make the cut) but Gaves are a complete unknown to me. Tried to Google them and it just thinks I'm misspelling 'Games'. So could you tell me what they are, or maybe provide a link? I'd appreciate it.

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    1. Gaves are beastmen that are born to humans, and then abandoned in the forest by their parents. They are considered sacred gifts by the beastmen (Gave is most likely a derivative from "given" or "gift"). They are mentioned in Tome of Corruption, I'll see about adding that paragraph in.

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  8. Something I noticed recently, as I only just started looking through Warhammer Fantasy again, is that the Glottkin book added the ability for almost all of the Beastmen units to gain one of the Marks of Chaos. I was kind of wondering if you had not included that for any particular reason?

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    1. That's because I wanted only the most elite of the beastmen to have a chance to be blessed by the gods, normal beastmen are not as interesting to them.

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  9. Any reason why Great-Bray Shamans cannot be mounted on Ramhorns, I only mention it because the flavor text specifically mentions bray shamans using Ramhorns to give them a better vantage point for casting spells but as far as I can see rules wise there is no option for a bray shaman to do this.

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    1. That's an omission, I will add it in their next update.

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    2. I would love a hardcopy of this. Can it be uploaded to print on demand sites for one-off runs? This one and the skaven book would make me happy to stick with 8th edition!

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    3. I would love a hardcopy of this. Can it be uploaded to print on demand sites for one-off runs? This one and the skaven book would make me happy to stick with 8th edition!

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