Sunday, 22 January 2017

New Kislev update and 9th Ed version out now!

Updated 26/4, see comments for more info.

This update changes the following:

  • War Wagons can choose equipment for the crew, default cost is 150 pts.
  • War Bear's Bear Hug only works on In, Ca and WB.
  • Tordimir has a 5+ ward save, 195 pts.
  • Stephan Rasin does not have LA or spear, 100 pts.
  • New short story on Miska's page, removed artwork (since it's really a depiction of Katarin according to Empire at War).
  • New background for Chekist, Boyars, Hag Witches and Kossars. 
  • New art for section intros and back cover.


  1. -The fluff gives the impression that the Boyars are higher ranking than Hetman.
    -Why aren't Ice Witches toughness 4 like almost every other Lord level wizard?
    -I don't think that Heart Strikes made by Rangers should allow armor saves. Getting that lucky 6 To Wound is already rare enough as is. I also think that all of their shooting attacks should have Heroic Killing Blow, not just ones against big targets.
    -Don't elite rank-and-file humans have S4 instead of T4? The Kreml Guard should be S4.
    -I don't think the Streltsi should have the Steady Aim special rule. Lots of other models can brace their handguns in a similar way and they get no such benefit.
    -I think that Chekists should be Hero and Lord choices like Witch Hunters and Inquisitors. Same with Droyaska.
    -Male polar bear, weigh 350-700 kg. Draft horses weigh 700-1000 kg and presumably are represented on the tabletop by being the horses that pull shrines and such. Because of that, the bears in a bear pack should be War Beasts rather than Monstrous Beasts and have 3 Weapon Skill, 2 Wounds and 2 Attack each. The bears ridden by Sons of Ursun and characters could be called Dire Bears or something similar.
    -Bear Tamers should be WS4 like most S4 rank-and-file humans.
    -Judging by Storm of Magic, a mount with natural armor has its natural armor be 1 more than the benefit the armor provides when mounted, which makes sense since the natural armor won't protect the rider. Because of that, the Dire Bears should have Natural Armor (6+).
    -Urskin should follow the regular progression for heroes. That means that he should be WS5 S5 T5 W4 I4 A4 Ld7. Also, why does Boris Ursus have lower stats than an equivalent lord? He should be WS6 I6. Urskin also still has the Winter Coat rule despite that being replaced with natural armor.
    -Saltan should be WS6, I6, A4 like other Hetman.
    -Baba Yaga's staff is called a 'Staff or the Forest' in its description.
    -Ilja should have Heart Strike just like all other Rangers. He should also be BS6.
    -Hags should also be able to choose to use the Lore of Beasts and Lore of the Heavens. The Lore of the Hags seems to draw influence from both.
    -Nevski's Screeching Black Banners say 'and chooses o hold'
    -The Warsled and Bears that Tzarina Katarin may ride have no profile though presumably it is exactly the same as Miska's.
    -Ilja should be a Lord considering the large number of wounds he possesses.
    -Hetman and Boyars should have the option for medium armor as well as heavy armor.
    -Druzhina should be Fast Cavalry considering their light equipment.
    -Horselords does not synergize well with the Ungol Horse Archers since only possessing a hand weapon means that people will keep them out of combat. They should swap with the Brotherhood of the Bear, with the Horse Archers gaining Striders and Ambushers and the Brotherhood having Horselords. Maybe moved to special as well since they are a step above most other core fast cavalry due to possessing BS4 and special rules to help.
    -The War Wagon will not do so well if anyone reaches it since they only have Hand Weapons. What happened to their flails?

    1. Yo Roland, what's up with you deeply analyzing every release of the project. This like your hobby or something? (Not that I'm objecting, most of those points are valid, although I like the idea of Ice Witches being fragile, but from a streamlining pov they might be stepping out.

    2. Lol Leo, is this NOT your hobby? :P

    3. It sure is. :)

      But the level of dedication Roland brings to every release makes me think he's partnered up with Mathias.

    4. - Fair point, I've changed them around. Boyars were the hero choices in the official rules, but seeing as Kislev never had a lord choice, making Boyars lords makes the most sense.
      - Like the Damsels, I chose to make them more fragile than your average wizard.
      - They are meant to be used against Griffons and the like. Rolling a 6 means you hit their heart, but any armour covering it could still protect it.
      - Not always, if you look at the greatswords. According to a Warseer member, in the book Riders of the Dead, Kreml Guard partake in self-mutilation to make themself used to pain. Hence I opted for +1T instead of +1S. However, I did a quick search in the book, and found nothing like that. So because of that, I'll make them +1S instead.
      - What other models is that? The only one I have seen is the hochland long rifle.
      - They could, but their special rule would not make them all that different from a Captain. I prefer them as a unit. Same with the Droyaska (who used to be a hero). Kislev already have 5 different hero choices as is.
      - A fair assessment, though in fantasy bears tend to be on the large side compared to reality (much like GW's warhorses are huge!). It makes it more consistent if the bears are the same (as Kislev have 3 types of bears already), and since most people would use them as monstrous Ca rather than Ca, it's easier to keep them that way. Alternatively I could make them both cavalry, but I'm not so sure that flows with the rule of cool as well. But it's not just weight that matters, overall frame is important too. According to WFRP, normal Ogres weigh between 800 to 1000lbs (circa 400-500 kg), and they are MI. Many bear models are around the same size.
      - Bear Tamers are just strong, they are not elite soldiers.
      - Fixed.
      - Urskin and Boris have the same stats as their official rules. Same with Saltan.
      - Fixed.
      - Fixed.
      - I really don't see a Hag summon a comet or turn into a dragon though ;) However, I do have plans on introducing a Kislev shaman as a separate download who will have access to some lores like that.
      - Fixed.
      - Clarified that.
      - Fixed, he has 2 wounds now.
      - None of the Kislev models really wear heavy armour though, at most they wear partial plate.
      - They do not train to fight as FC though, they are rather a lighter version of winged lancers.
      - Removed the rule, added more fluff instead. Horse archers have always been core though, do not want to change that.
      - Added back flails as an option.

    5. -Stephan Raisin still has Horselords.
      -The Great Bear available to characters has Natural Armor (5+) in the mounts section.
      -War Wagons should have two separate sets of options. One involving, bows, crossbows and handguns and the other being Flails, Great Weapons and Halberds. Originally its crew had both flails and handguns meaning that they would be adept at both range and up close but now it's overspecialized. If bunkered down, melee units could go around it if it only has flails and if it only has flails the crew will be helpless before any unit with a ranged weapon while if it was equipped with ranged weapons then it's doomed the first time it is charged.

    6. -I can understand not making heavy armor available to any rank-and-file units but currently, Boyar upgrade straight from light to heavy with no medium option.
      -If crossbows are available to War Wagons then why can't the rest of the army use those in any form? Consider making crossbows available to Boyar, Hetmen and Streltsi. Maybe Kossars and Sibyrian Hunters as well.

    7. - Fixed.
      - Fixed.
      - Fixed (was a space issue more than anything).
      - Fixed (changed heavy to medium, as intended).
      - They are not exactly mainstay weapons in Kislev, but are available for Kislev mordheim models, hence I figured including them in some form. The War Wagon made the most sense here, since the hussites used them. The other mentioned troop types did not use crossbows.

    8. -The Steady Aim special rule makes Streltsi effectively be Ballistic Skill 4 at all times. Why not just cut out the middle man?
      -Though Boris Ursus and Saltan were already stated, that was two editions ago when Kislev only had heroes which was reflected in their low stats. You should adapt their statlines to match how there are now lords in their army.

    9. - Changed it so that they count short range from 12" instead, makes more sense and means the bonus is not constant.
      - Boris Ursus was a lord though, so not sure why the hero Boyar would mean he would have lower stats than other lords (maybe he's just old and fat? ;). But fine, fixed.

    10. -It's great that you fixed the Weapon Skill but you forgot to change their Initiatives.

    11. - Fixed (kept Boris at I5 though, his official Init is actually 3!).

    12. WHAT! Don't touch Ilja! Don't hear that fool!

      Ilja MUST have 3 wounds because is basically huge guy, STRONGEST MAN OF THE LAND. But he isn't a commander like other armies Lords. Is just a human with high S T and W stats because is giant, and is basically that what makes him special.

      Also, improve Boris WS is streamline for streamline sake, not all Lords must have the same stats and not all special characters must be ordinary versions with improved stats. Boris, Igor or Tsaltan are Tsars, governors, not the ultimate fighters.

    13. I see your point, but this is actually already represented in both his high S and T, as well as the resilient rule. 2 Wounds is pretty much the universal standard for Heroes in warhammer (and I also streamlined it for Wights and Tomb Princes).

      About Boris and Saltan, they are both fighters in the background, so it would make more sense for them to at least have the same stats as the generic Lord. This is pretty much true for any other army book.

  2. I would really love it if the units for the Kislevs were able to adapt for the models that were produced. In the first Kislev list by Thomas pirenin (or however it is spelt) had horse archers and Huns and Cossacks. This enabled the different horse archer models to go into different units. You use the bare chested horse archer figures as horse archers. But there is no unit for the other models. Kislevman on horse with bow wearing tunic and fluffy hat. The druzhina have armour and can't take bows... I suppose what I would prefer is god spar horse archers and until horse archers being two units, and dropping one of the others. The brotherhood of the bear are very hard to use, lots of special rules that bump their cost, an armourment that means they want to be both in combat and at range, but not the defence to survive anything

    1. The official Ungol models have both bare chests and tunics, so there's no need to have 2 units with the same equipment. Druzhina have no bows since they are the close combat version of horse archers having two types of horse archers in core does not really add anything. The Brotherhood's biggest strength is their ambushers rule which allows to attack the enemy in the rear. They are a multitask unit if anything, much like Bretonnias yeomen.

    2. The official models were horse archers, there was no ungol terminology. Your description perfectly matches the bare chested figures. There is no suitable unit for the ones with tunics in your list

  3. In the official background there have only been Ungols and Gospodars, and the horse archers were released to be used in a single unit (with a common command group). Huns (now Hung) were only ever in the Pirinen list, which also had mounted Cossacks (now infantry Kossars) and some other tribes that are never mentioned in other material. There is also no mention of Ungols in that list (who later became the catch-all "tribal horsemen"). In addition, the real-life Cossacks wore clothes similar to both the bare-chested models and the ones with fluffy hats, so there is no need to separate them into different units.


  4. Hey hey Ore Orc Brets here

    So in the history you write that 2300 before Sigmar, the Dwarfs drive out the Elves, but the war of the Beard started -1997 IC. Before that the Dwarfs and the Elves were allies

    1. That's actually the way it's written in realm of the ice queen, but will revise it to fit better with the war of the beard.

  5. The drop from T4 to T3 in exchange for S3 to S4 feels like a massive mistake.

    One of the reasons I enjoy your books is that you make an effort to differentiate human factions apart and not just carbon copies of one-another.

    T4 differentiated the Kreml Guard enough for them to be unique and reflected the specific nature of the Kislevite nation.

    1. As an aside, if you're thinking about the Ranger's Heartstrike, you could have the ability ignore Scaly Skin saves? That'd demonstrate the Ranger taking down large monsters and not armoured men and women.

    2. Normally humans are not T4 except for heroes, and the supposed self-mutilation practiced by the Kreml Guard would be the reason they would be different. However, as I've found no actual source for this, there's nothing to fall back on to give them a reason to be T4 other than "it's different from other armies".

      About the heartstrike, that would not work against enemies like mammoths and the like that a different kind of natural armour. The whole idea with heartstrike is that the Ranger manages to hit the heart, but if that heart is protected by armour, then the monster have a chance to avoid death. It's a small fluffy rule, otherwise I would fear Kislev player might try to spam rangers to shoot down the enemy's dragon immediately.

  6. Eliasson, I adapted your Kislev armybook to 9th age with many changes, for example, change Bear priests for Volkhvs or merge syberian hunters and kvassnics (into partisans). I'm moderator of 9th forum and I can do some pressure to make people interested. I always remember people your works (not only with kislev but also Cathay or Arabia)

  7. have you considered to give them canons, special choice S7 D3 wounds?
    it´s odd that they have none since kislev has close relationship to the empire and is trading with dwarfs as well.
    and they have a serious problem against monster/chariot spam.
    hags with the possibilitiy for shadow and death?

    1. I'm not sure cannons fit that well with Kislev, there are no mentions of them in background except the Urugan.

      I'm planning to release a Kislev Shaman who would have several different lores to choose between, it does not really fit that well for the Hags imo.

  8. Hallo,

    is there also a kislev army book for the 6 or 7 th. Edition? Because my battlegroup is only playing these editions.