Wednesday, 27 April 2016

Ravening Hordes: Ogre Kingdoms out now!

Updated 5/5

The Ogre Kingdoms book is one I had a lot of requests for, and with that in mind, this update might look a little disappointing to some. However, more changes are likely to be implemented in the full version. This book streamlines some rules and nerfs some of the really powerful units, while at the same time buffing the underused ones (Yhetees and Gorgers, looking at you!). Apart from that, you will find that the Big Names are much cheaper now (though since you can only take one unlike Vampiric Powers, they still count towards magic item allowance). Magic Items should also be a lot more worth taking now.

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  • Ogre Charge does not gain bonuses for charging more than 10".
  • Ironfist can be used as an AHW or shield in close combat.
  • More expensive Heroes.
  • Bulls have LA as an option, 27 pts.
  • Ironguts have HA as an option, 38 pts.
  • Gnoblar Trappers are a separate unit.
  • New unit: Ice Mammoth.
  • New Hero: Gnoblar Head Honcho.
  • New unit: Grimhorn Rhinox Riders.
  • Mournfang A3.
  • Maneaters BS3, 45 pts.
  • Sabretusks A2, can take SoM upgrades. 18 pts.
  • Gorger 55 pts.
  • Yhetees 41 pts, have 2HW's.
  • Ironblaster T5. 
  • Scraplauncher 125 pts.
  • Leadbelchers moved to Core, 40 pts.
  • Cheaper Big Names.
  • Mastodon Armour replaces Rock Eye.
  • Cheaper magic items.
  • Firebellies Fire Breath nerfed to S3.
  • Giant now Slavegiant (no Stubborn). Will get Slavegiant attacks in the full version.

32 comments:

  1. It's not really relevant but in the 8th ravening hordes dropdown list, the Orcs link redirect to the lizardmen book, while the liz link redirect to the orcs book

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  2. It seems that the V9 supplement does not have any explanation for the rule Thick-skinned.

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  3. -The Master's Voice should allow Inspiring Presence to be used if the General is a Hunter.
    -Why did you remove Been There, Done That? It allowed for so much customization and some interesting uses.
    -Numbing Chill says "strike at Initiative 1". Strike needs an extra s.
    -Smooth Ride says "ignore the To Hit" when it should say 'ignores'.
    -Brain Gobbler mentions Immune to Psychology instead of Immunity (Psychology).
    -Deathcheater grants a 3+ ward save despite ward saves not going beyond 4+. Though personally I think they shouldn't go beyond 3+ instead of being unable to go beyond 4+.
    -Mastodon Armor and the Gutmaw are listed as Heavy Armor despite Ogres not having anything better than Medium.
    -Bruiser, Hunters, Firebellies and Butchers should be Toughness 4, following the pattern set out by Bull Centaurs, Minotaurs and Rat Ogres where Monstrous ______ heroes have either +1 strength or +1 toughness compared to rank and file models and where Lord wizards have +1 toughness compared to regular models but not hero wizards.
    -Ogre Hunters should be able to take a Chaintrap and ride Thundertusks and Ice Mammoths.
    -It's great that you have increased the points costs of weapon and armor upgrades for Rank and File Ogres but you have forgotten to do the same for Hero and Lord Ogres.
    -Leadbelcher Thunderfists should have BS3 instead of 4 attacks.
    -Mournfang Cavalry should have Ironfists by default and could be upgraded to Ironguts who have a Great Weapon instead of an Ironfist and +1 leadership as a 4 point upgrade.
    -Maneaters should have the statline of a Dogs of War Rhinox Rider. It doesn't make much sense for a Captain to make more attacks than a Bruiser and they break established patterns. Been There, Done That, WS4, BS3 and Ld8 is plenty for justifying them being in the special section.
    -Sabretusk Packs should be moved to Core. They are basically bigger tougher versions of Chaos Warhounds, Hobhounds, Dog Packs and similar units.
    -The Gnoblar Scrap Launcha should have Beneath Contempt. Also, why was it moved to special?
    -Why are Grimhorn Rhinox Riders weaker than your Dogs of War version?
    -Mournfangs and Rhinoxes still have Thick-Skinned despite those rules being represented by Natural Armour (6+) and Natural Armour (5+) respectively.
    -The Ironblaster has Gnoblar Scrapper misspelled as Scapper. It's also missing the profile for the Leadbelcher that is riding it.
    -The Stonehorn should have Smooth Ride or else no one will decide to replace the Chaintrap with a Harpoon Launcher.

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    1. -Slaughtermasters and Butchers should have Immunity (Poison) instead of Immune to Poison.

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    2. Great update but you made some mistakes:
      -Been There Done That can grant Immune to Psychology instead of Immunity (Psychology).
      -The Mournfang and Rhinox have not had Thick-Skinned replaced with Natural Armour in the mounts section.
      -Though you brought back Been There Done That, you did not change the Maneater entry to reflect that. It still says they are Immune to Psychology and Stubborn.

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    3. Oh, and you still haven't increased the points costs of weapons for characters. Characters currently have less costly equipment than Rank-and-file models instead of the other way around.

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    4. The * next to Move and Fire on the Harpoon Launcher is redundant due to the Smooth Ride special rule.

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    5. -Earth-Shattering Charge from Stonehorns does not have an explanation on what it does.
      -Mournfangs and Rhinoxes have Impact Hits (D3) which is redundant due to your 9th edition rules for Monstrous Cavalry.
      -Mournfang and Rhinox cavalry should have a special rule that makes them Unit Strength 6 since they are a monstrous beast ridden by monstrous infantry instead of a monstrous beast ridden by regular infantry.
      -The more I think about it the more I think that Imperial Ogres should have access to Ogre Pistols due to being official soldiers of the largest Handgun producing nation in the setting. Make them BS3 as well so that they can use those effectively.

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    6. Fixed most of these now. I'll see about the last two as well.

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    7. Earth-Shattering Charge says that the model can still make Thunderstomps.

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    8. I took a look at the Mammoth from your Norse Book and noticed that its 4+ armor save comes from its Battle Howdah. The War Mammoth should have a 5+ armor save which is the same as an elephant.

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    9. Thanks, will fix both. The War Mammoth will have different rules in WoC, removing the separate rules for the howdah and make it similar to stegadon howdahs.

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  4. On an unrelated note, Monsters from the Empire Army Book are missing Terror and Large Target and Witch Hunters are missing Magic Resistance (2).

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    1. -Regarding what I've said previously about Forbidden Lore, that vampire trait gives whoever takes it access to the high level spells that it normally wouldn't have since you tied Wizard Level to which spells a model may take. Perhaps change Loremaster so it gives the model access to every spell its Wizard level allows it to choose (so a Level 1 Wizard that has gotten Loremaster for whatever reason would know the signature spell and spells 1-3).

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    2. You should also bring back the rule that Monstrous ______ make 3 supporting attacks instead of one. It was a pretty major nerf to skink units with Kroxigor support.

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    3. Is Vampire Quickblood usable by a model on a Coven Throne? It really shouldn't be.

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    4. - Mo have Terror and Large Target by default. Fixed MR2.
      - That's not a bad idea, I'll see about adding it.
      - Will fix that too.
      - And fix that.

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  5. I don't really see what you mean by disappointed. This is great!
    - First and foremost, allow me to thank you for the Ice Mammoth. It has been a wish of mine since before I even discovered your blog.
    - I had a small fear that you would flood the book with new Gnoblars, but the way you just put in these was spot on great!
    - The Character options are great, both with the Big Names, items and mount Options!

    However, there are a couple things I don't quite agree on:
    - Most importantly, I have a feeling that some of the army's 'theme' has been taken away. I see a pattern in your books where there is some 'standardization' and everyone gets Core choices of as great variety as possible. I thnk it takes away something from the Ogres that you have moved two ranged units one level 'down' - the Leadbelchers and Scraplauncher. It gives the possibility of a more range-oriented (or possibly gunline!) army which is in no way how Ogres should work. I'd move them back.
    - I'm not the first and I don't think I will be the last to dislike the removal of 'been there done that' from the Maneaters, as it was kind of their thing. I'd give it back.
    - The Thiefstone lost its MR? You may want to rethink that. I always took it because it was fun and still gave something on a 1, but now i'll skip it. MR1 and a cost-up is fine, i'd say.

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    1. I'd say that the standardization just allows for more variation and themed armies. Perhaps the tyrant spent time as a mercenary and became obsessed with firearms and artillery. On that same note though I agree that it would a real shame for maneaters to loose'been there done that' as it helps with themed armies

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    2. I'd say that the standardization just allows for more variation and themed armies. Perhaps the tyrant spent time as a mercenary and became obsessed with firearms and artillery. On that same note though I agree that it would a real shame for maneaters to loose'been there done that' as it helps with themed armies

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    3. I very much agree, the 'Been There, Done That' rule was one of the coolest in the game, and its a shame that maneaters have lost it. I very much think it should be re added, I miss my poisoned, scouting ninja ogres.

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    4. In the case of Themoonlightwolf1's comment, Tyrants and Bruisers should be able to take Handcannons.

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  6. Amazing work ! After the Armies Books upgrade, I'll be waiting for the Ravening Hordes supplement for minor factions (Marienburg, etc.). And mutants in beastmen book. For me, after this, we will reach and achieve what I can call "Ultimate Warhammer Battle" in my own taste. You have ressurected this universe after the death sentence from GW.

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  7. I have a ton of suggestions for Chaos Warriors.
    -Since you're not bound by copyright you can make representation of Malal on the tabletop. Mark of Malal grants Killing Blow, Daemon of Malal grants re-rolls of 1 To Hit and Hatred (Daemons), Forsaken of Malal has Fight In Extra Ranks (1), Spawn of Malal has Hatred and Giant of Malal has +1 Movement.
    -The Mark of Slaanesh should grant true Immunity (Psychology) instead of the current pseudo immunity.
    -The Mark of Nurgle should grant +1 toughness instead of making the model -1 To Hit. This goes with the fluff where worshipers of Nurgle stop suffering the harmful effects of his plagues by making worshipers harder to kill using the Lore of Nurgle.
    -Skullcrushers, Gorebeast Chariot Riders and Rot Knights should be WS6. I imagine them as being on the same level as Chosen but instead of being given an augmentation from Chaos every battle they get a high-quality mount.
    -I've seen a lot of conversions of Chaos Chariots and I would love to see those become legitimate. There should be an option to replace the steeds with Steeds of Slaanesh, Flesh Hounds, Rot Beasts or Discs of Tzeentch if the Chariot has the appropriate mark.
    -Similarly, it should be possible to replace the Gorebeast of a Gorebeast Chariot with a Chaos Spawn, Juggernaut, Fiend of Slaanesh, Plague Toad, Beast of Nurgle or Rot Fly if the chariot has the appropriate mark.
    -Perhaps reverse the effects of the Warpflame special rule where passing the test causes wounds to be suffered (a single wound for single model units) and failing the test gives benefits. It would be hilarious for Tzeentch to turn toughness against a unit and especially useful against his mortal enemy Nurgle.
    -Daemonblades should simply grant an additional D6-1 attacks that must be rolled for each round. That would make the benefits more consistent between various character models.
    -Make the Daemon Prince able to take up to 100 points worth of Magic items instead of 25. It doesn't make sense for it to have less available points for weapons than almost all heroes.
    -The Chaos Warshrine makes more sense as a Monster with the Shrinemaster counting as a rider.
    -Putrid Blightkings, Skullreapers and Wrathmongers should become Monstrous Infantry.
    -Rot Knights should be moved to Rare.

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    1. -I feel that Tzeentch was neglected during the End Times. Tzeentch should get a Rare unit of WS6 Chaos Warriors riding Discs of Tzeentch. They would be a cavalry unit that starts with hand weapons and can take either a lance and shield, an additional hand weapon, a Great Weapon or an ensorcelled hand weapon and shield.
      -Since you made it that Great Weapons and two Hand Weapons can be wielded without any problem by cavalry models, maybe you should have the various Chaos Warrior cavalry units start with a hand weapon and have a mandatory choice between a shield, shield and lance, additional hand weapon, great weapon and EHW and shield.

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    2. Wasn't Slaanesh pretty overlooked as well?

      - I thoroughly support the idea of bringing back Malal from the depths of Retconistan. He's a cool concept, even if you add something like "no other Marks may be included in the army if you take Mark of Malal" to support the idea of hating everyone. It would also justify the IMO pretty stong KB if they get that Mark.

      - However I don't think the End Times Trio should be Monstrous. Their bases are to account for the need of space, especially with the Khornates and their chains. On the contrary, I think they shoud havean entry that states they must use Monstrous bases even though they are themselves normal Infantry.

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    3. Putrid Blightkings, Skullreapers and Wrathmongers are smaller than Ogres and aren't much bigger than typical Chaos Warriors so perhaps drop their Wounds to 1, attacks to 2 and give a hefty points drop as well. Then, remove the ability for Chosen to take a Mark of Nurgle or a Mark of Khorne with the implication that Blightkings, Skullreapers and Wrathmongers are what they were replaced with.

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    4. Bad idea, because you still would to use 40 mmm bases... Blightkings and similar 40mm infantry as they are now are a great addition.

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  8. Leadbelchers are unit size 10+. Is that correct?

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