Monday, 4 April 2016

Ravening Hordes: Orcs & Goblins out now!

Updated 12/4

Another list that does not change too much, since the basics was pretty stable (as much as an O&G army can be considered "stable" at least!). I've done away with some superfluous rules, changed the pricing a bit (goblins get a bit more bang for their buck, Orc characters are more expensive, monsters are cheaper). The main changes here are the new-ish units added to the rare section, giving you a total of 6 Monsters to choose between! These have also been tweaked a bit from the Forge World versions to be more balanced.

Download 8th Ed

Download 9th Ed

  • New Unit: Rogue Idol of Gork (or possibly Mork).
  • New Unit: Giant River Troll Hag
  • New Unit: Colossal Squig
  • New Unit: Night Goblin Squig Gobba
  • New Unit: Forest Goblins
  • Snotlings moved to core, 25 pts.
  • Wolf Riders have spears and shield by default, 12 pts.
  • Goblins have shields by default.
  • Night Goblins 2,5 pts.
  • Stone/River Trolls are an upgrade to normal Trolls. Basic Trolls 40 pts.
  • Rock Lobber moved to Special.
  • Extra Boingy removed, since it will practically never see play.
  • Nasty Skulkers no longer have ASF or AP.
  • Doom Divers no longer ignores armour saves, 75 pts.
  • Venom Surge removed, slows down the game with little benefit.
  • Mangler Squigs does not count as being in soft cover.
  • Orc bosses can take heavy armour.
  • Collar of Zorga and Horn of Urgok added.
  • Cheaper magic items.
  • More expensive Orc bosses and Shamans.
  • Night Goblins may wear LA (as can be seen at the bottom of their robes).
  • Goblin Boss characters have LA by default.
  • Arachnarok Spider 260 pts. 
  • Mangler Squigs 70 pts.
  • Black Orcs 13 pts.
  • Orc Boar Boyz have spears and shields by default, 20 pts. 
  • Fanatics are no longer Armour Piercing.


  1. -In my opinion, the 6th edition version of Choppas made the most sense since there are a lot of weapons that work on the principle of being very heavy that don't get the same bonus. I would word it like: "Choppa: Hand Weapons wielded by Orks are known as Choppas. They can be wielded in two hands if the user doesn't have a shield, great weapon, spear or additional choppa, when doing so they gain +1 strength during the first round of combat and Armour Piercing (1) during all further rounds. When two Choppas are used or a Choppa is used with a shield then it has the Armour Piercing (1) special rule during the first round of combat and no special affect during any further rounds." With this, spears, shields and additional choppas should be free for orks and the cost of a Great Weapon should be halved.
    -Creeping Assault still says that the model gains a bonus to its armor save for riding a mount.
    -Flinger still causes units hit by it to Always Strike Last.
    -The Squig Herd special rule isn't bolded.
    -The Troll Vomit special rule says that trolls can still stomp.
    -The Collar of Zorga should include cavalry mounts and monstrous cavalry mounts to the list of units it protects against.
    -The amount of Big Uns upgrades that can be taken should be two for grand armies instead of one.
    -Orc and Goblin Bosses (except for Black ones) should be BS5. Orc bosses would then have access to Longbows and Goblin bosses would then have access to Shortbows.
    -Orc Arrer boyz should be upgradeable to Big Uns, replacing their Bow with a Long Bow.
    -Likewise, Savage Orks upgraded to Big Uns should lose access to bows but gain access to long bows.
    -I don't quite understand the point for differentiating normal and Forest Goblins. Forest Goblins come across as gimped versions without armor and Forest Strider isn't useful in all cases. I think just give regular goblins the ability to poison their weapons (Goblin bosses as well).
    -Bows for Orcs and Short-Bows for Spider Riders may be a bit under-costed right now due to the 9th edition changes (mainly due to Stand and Fire).
    -Spider Riders should be moved to special.
    -Spider Riders, Wolf Chariots and Squig Hopper should be ridden by (comparatively) elite goblins which translates into goblins that have +1 WS and I compared to normal ones. By relation, I think the various Goblin Bosses should then have their initiative improved by 1.
    -Black Orcs should be able to take Throwing Axes.
    -Trolls only have one attack each.
    -In the special rules section, Squig Gobbers are listed as a Colossal Squig.

    1. I think that the proposed changes to choppas are a bit complicated. Besides, the rule stems not so much from the weapons themselves, but the orcs' method of using them. That is, swinging them as hard as they can until they get tired, as opposed to fighting like a normal person and conserving strength. In my opinion, Choppas work fine as they are, think of it as a special rule along the same line as Predatory Fighter or Martial Prowess, just something that gives a melee focused army a little oomph.

    2. That said, I agree with most of the other changes, not sure about Black Orcs with ranged attacks though.

    3. -A lot of settings tend to have Wyverns be faster and more maneuverable than dragons due to larger wings. I think this could be represented by making Wyverns be Fast Cavalry and Hill Striders (due to those massive claws). I would also give them a S2 Ignores Armor breath weapon like what was present in Storm of Magic.
      -War Paint should grant a +1 bonus to Ward Saves if the model has a ward save from another source in your 8th edition book just like the Mark of Tzeentch and Albion war paint.
      -Orc (not savage orc) big uns should be able to upgrade from light to medium armor.
      -Taking a Mark of Khorne and Mark of Tzeentch (I know you can't do that but bear with me for a moment) costs 20 points for characters and 4 points for Rank and File models. Because of that I think Savage Orc bosses should cost 15 points more than normal ones (due to lacking light armor), Savage Orc shamans should cost 20 points more than normal ones and rank-and-file Savage Orc units should cost 3 points more than normal ones (also due to lacking light armor).
      -The goblins riding a wolf chariot should have short bows. The orcs riding a boar chariot should have bows.
      -Orc Boar chariots should be able to upgrade their riders to big uns.
      -Big uns upgrades should be 3pts per model. It costs 2pts for a halberd that improves S by 1 and I would estimate +1pt for improving WS by 1.
      -The High/Dark Elves, Chaos Warriors, Skaven and presumably one or two other army books are able to take Monsters that are on the lower-end in terms of cost as mounts for their heroes. I think that should apply to every army book.
      -Units that could be made to be either a dedicated ranged unit or dedicated melee unit (or made both) should be able to choose between a Champion with +1 BS or a Champion with +1 A.

    4. To A concerned skaven player: What abou somthing like this:Kleave: If orc in close combat kill enemy, +1 attack in this round ??? what do you thing about it?

    5. -Nasty Skulkers should also have +1WS/I compared to the rank-and-file ones.
      -If an Ork Bully gives makes its goblin charges no longer fear elves than orc characters should do the same to goblin units that they join.

    6. -Since Black Ork bosses can ride boars and chariots you should add Black Orc Boar Boyz as a rare unit and make it that Boar Chariots can upgrade their riders to Black Orcs. Boar Boyz would cost 24 points (10 more than the on foot units, just like when comparing normal orcs to boar boyz), have all the command options and can take shields for a single point.
      -By the way, since you lowered the cost of spears and shields for Savage Orc boar boyz to two points, shouldn't the normal boar boyz cost 18pts each since bare-bones savage orcs normally cost 2pts more than regular one?

    7. - I think choppas work well as they are right now, otherwise there is no point in taking spears for Boar Boyz for instance (well, except the Init. bonus I suppose).
      - Added cavalry mounts to Zorga.
      - Big Un's are restricted per army, it would not fit to have more than 1.
      - None of the Boss models have bows though. Orcs with longbows does not really fit, they look more like normal bows (albeit big ones) to me.
      - Forest Goblins does not have LA, normal GOblins do. Normal goblins does not use poison. So they have different strengths and weaknesses. Forest Goblins were also a unit in 5th ed.
      - Spider Riders are not really good enough to be Special imo, but they are a bit inbetween the two.
      - Don't see them as more elite than other goblins, there's just something off with WS3 on goblins to me.
      - I don't see why Black Orcs would use that really, does not quite fit.
      - Wyverns in Warhammer are pretty big and clumsy though, I think they work fine as is. I might give them some more options though.
      - Good point about War Paint, will add that.
      - The models don't really have more than light armour though, only some Orc Bosses have what I would classify as medium armour.
      - All Marks are current overpriced, frenzy/ward 6+ normally costs 15 pts for characters, and 2/1,5 pts for rank'n'file.
      - The models do not have bows.
      - That's fair, will increase the cost to 3 pts.
      - I'd like to keep Wyverns as Lord mounts, O&G have plenty of Mo as is.
      - Too complicated to implement easy.
      - I really don't think they need a third unit of Boar Boyz, Black Orcs normally fight on foot. I don't really like BO bosses being able to be mounted, but I want to allow people to keep using their old models.
      - Yes, spears and shields should cost 3 pts for them, will update it.

    8. Why would giving units an option to take either a Marksman or Champion type character be so difficult? Just say:
      *A unit may upgrade one model to one of the following unit champions:
      **Sergeant (10pts)
      **Marksman (10pts)

    9. The issue stems from the fact that you would both require to add an additional statline for a second champion which can look confusing, and the new champion would also require a new name. The units that are tooled for both combat and range are so few anyway that this really isn't needed.

  2. Great to see the rogue idol but you changed the profiles a lot from monster arcanum (I1, rock pile profile but rogue idol/great idol removed..). Also much changes for 9th like unstable ?

    1. Yes, the MA Idol was 400 pts, way too much for a standard game. I streamlined the rules a bit and made it unbreakable and unstable (it's an animated object after all) instead of Stubborn.

  3. Great to see the Doomdiver finally being straighted out a bit, been looking forward to that for a while ^^

    Not too happy about the Night Goblin Shamans still adding +1D6 to all casting rolls. Ever since they removed practically the same ability from Slanns, it has seemed totally ludicrous that Gobbo Shammys would be more powerful spellcasters than a Slann. I mean, c'mon. You think a Slann couldnt eat some magic shrooms if he wanted too? What the f*** dude?

    Regardless, I expect that you will give Slann a much needed buff anyway, but I would still, suggest magic Shrooms a +D3 instead of +1D6.

    1. You are right about that, will nerf it to D3.

  4. You may want to re-upload the 8th ed version as a PDF - it's a text document right now, and it looks like a draft of sorts with the Special Rules the way they are, and the bottom saying 'Dwarfs' to name but two things.

    Either way, I'm looking even more forward to OK now that I see the cool Monsters this big n' burly crew gets!
    (*coughs* Mammoth *coughs*)

  5. no animosity changes?

  6. Goblin Doom Divers have been nerfed a bit too much in my opinion. I know they're too much before, but maybe leaving the chance to redirect the hits through their wings was fun and quite "realistic". Maybe S5 and Piercing is better than "No Armour Save" (Chaos and Empire Knights will save at 4 plus anyway) but how can the Orcs stop heavy cavallery without Doomdivers?

    1. gotta agree with you that is a strong nerf, they need some way of dealing with heavy armored cav

    2. Boltthrowers have become more precise in 9th ed, 3+ within 24", dont forget that. Dont know about giving them AP, might be ok, but its right at the tipping point.

    3. You still have bolt throwers, black orcs, trolls, fanatics, characters, squigs, giants (and other monsters), so O&G are not exactly wanting in terms in high strength. Beastmen have less options, and I have not heard anything complaints about that.

    4. Just my opinion, no offense intended to your great work ^_^. I'm glad that orc people will have to change their lists adding something different and new, I'm modifing a Greater Obsidian Golem from Mantic to reproduce the Rogue Idol of Gork (or possibly Mork).

  7. Then, Black Orcs with shields are 15 points each (maybe a little too much) even if their Armour Save is now 4 plus, 3 plus with shields.
    Anyway, I really like the Rogue Idol of Gork (or Mork eventually) ^_^

  8. Personally I find no problem with Night goblin shrooms, however the Spider shrine strikes me as a gross oversight.

    +2 to channel makes you channel on a 2+ in 9th. That's in both your and your opponents magic phase. This is bonkers on a Beastherd stone level while being less than half the price and giving you loremaster.

    1. +2 to channel, doesn't that just mean that you can try to channel two more dice?

    2. Don't think so. The Channeling Staff in the BRB does a similar job for 35 points. Now everyone getting twice the benefit for 40 pts (not to mention Loremaster) strikes me as an epigraph of insanity.

    3. Haha yea noticed that too its quite insane. Just the rider is 4 dice at 2+ in own phase. Have a couple of lvl 1's within 12" and you are good to go, thats 3-4 extra dice in opponents turn and 5-6 in your own. Mental. It will probably get changed : D

    4. Yes, that's most certainly an oversight from 8th ed. I'll remove the channelling part completely and just keep Loremaster.

  9. It seems a but weird that all other forest goblins can have poisoned attacks, but not those mounted on an Arachnarok Spider. Although I will concede 16 poisoned attacks from one model may be too powerful.

  10. My suggestions for the Lizardmen:
    -Temple Guard are able to test to restrain pursuit if they have a Slaan Mage-Priest in the unit.
    -The Skink attendant that protects a Slaan Mage-Priest should be one of the strongest skinks in existence. This means that a Slaan Mage Priest model should have two profiles. One for the Slaan and the second for the Skink attendant which would have WS5 BS5 S4 T3 W3 I7 A4 Ld7. Opponents must kill the Skink before being able to harm the Slaan.
    -Saurus should be WS4 base (increase the WS of all Saurus by one). They were born, bred and created to fight.
    -Cold One Riders should be S5, Temple Guard should be T5 and Oldbloods should be S6 and Ld9.
    -Since the Skinks that ride Ripperdactyls have been described as the most elite of their kind, they should be WS3, I5. I would also think that the Skink crew on an Ancient Stegadon and Bastiladon would be the same considering they carry a very important machine.

    1. Not sure about S5 on temple guard and cold one riders, they already hit at S5 due to weapons, and their 2 attacks could make S6 hits a bit too powerful.
      I don't have strong opinion either way regarding WS buffs, but I think Strength should stay where it is now.

    2. As an avid Lizardmen player, these buffs are way too much.

      The Tg restraint seems fine by me, but an added Skink model (especially considering how small that Skink is) seems completely unnecessary as well as overly complicated.
      Saurus's strength, toughness, 2 attacks and good leadership are balanced by them being rather unskilled as well as slow. Taking that away goes against classic Warhammer themes and doesn't even make sense balance wise.

      Cold One Riders definitely need buffs, but S5 is probably not the way to roll. Neither is TG at S5 or Oldbloods at S6 (they already have the problem of not really requiring a Magic Weapon to function well, instead spending all their points on defensive items).
      Ripperdactyl riders as WS3 I could see happen.

      Still, I've been dabbling with 9th Age recently and one of the best changes (some of them are pretty bad, to be fair) is the fact that Bastiladons now grant +1 WS (Sun) and Poison (Snake) respectively. This makes them very worthwhile and further clears up their role as support monster.

    3. - I can add "Slann" to the Predatory fighter rule instead.
      - Don't think that's necessary.
      - Saurus are already both strong and tough with good LD and 2A, they need some weakness to balance that out.
      - S4/6 is just too much, you that's more than most MI have.
      - Buffing Ripperdactyl riders is fine, don't think the others need it.

    4. Changes that I'd like to see:

      -Predatory Fighter rules clearup, honestly not a big problem anymore, but Spear-wielding Saurus should either get additional attacks from the back row on a 6 or it should at least be stated that they don't.
      -Slann retention of High Magic (would let me keep on using my Cards) or at least a way to keep on swapping around spells.
      -Bit cheaper Saurus (just one point) as well as the ability to bring a magic banner.
      -More expensive Skirmish Skinks
      -These changes combined fix the current problem with our core, an overabundance of Skinks causing the famed death cloud, while at the same time allowing people who only brought two units of skinks to keep their core at a more or less equal points value.

      -Jungle Swarms in core
      -Temple Guard are fine as is, though the ability to choose between HW+Shield and Halberds in cc would be a nice touch.
      -More Slann disciplines? Perhaps at a better points balance too?
      -Cold One riders need buffs as their low I and mediocre AS deprives them of a solid role in an army that ha sno real use for them.
      -I really dig what the 9th Age did with the Bastiladon, basically granting your nearby units buffs in form of +1WS or Poison. However if the 'don keep their abilities in form of tacking on new swarms and the powerful bound spell the area buffs will in all likelyhood be too much.
      -Troglodons and perhaps Razordons are also in need of buffs.
      -I'm trying to think of things in need of nerfing but honestly the biggest offenders are probably Tetto' who is a special character and therefore not relevant to the upcoming release and some disciplines as well as the good 'ol Cube 'o Dark which acted as a second dispel scroll (though perhaps since people get to bring a second one, being the Destroy Magic Scroll), it's not so bad.

    5. Are you going to make the special weapons and moon amulet available to the Amazons usable by the Lizardmen?

    6. Lizardmen are not too likely to go down in pts, I'm rather planning on nerfing them somewhat (some units will get boosts though).

      Not planning on adding High Age artefacts though.

  11. Rock lobber at 35pts. Is it a typo?

    1. Definite typo! I'll upload a correct version ASAP!

  12. At the end of April we will see a couple of new Age of Sigmar releases. It seems it will be a Black Orcs cavalry unit, a new bigger Black Orcs unit in the same vein as Blightkings, a monster (probably a huge wyvernesque thing) and a couple of characters.

    Will you consider adding those units if it fits the current O&G aestehics?

    1. I probably won't add them directly to the army book, but I might make a small expansion for them. We'll see once they are out.

    2. Hmm, after seeing the leaked pics, I don't think that new miniatures will fit the current aestehics.. .

  13. Here some ideas that could be cool for aminosity:

    1. Fight!!: Unit can't do anything as if it failed a stupidity test

    2-5 It's a good plan : the unit can act normally

    6 We gonna show them: the unit move 1D6 inches in direction to the closest enemy unit

    Also, black orc unit in 6 inches bubble can calm aminosity as a black orc character do. I little bit like Dwarf Longbeards do.

  14. The version I just downloaded doesn't seem to explain what War Paint does...

    1. 9th Ed I take it? I originally had it as a simple 6+ ward save, hence I did not write it in as a new special rule, but some unit can upgrade to war paint (like the giant), so I decided to add it back in, but forgot to mention it in the rules section. In short, it gives a 6+ ward save.

  15. One of the easy options for the 8th Ravening hordes O&G book that was a blatant omission in the last formal book: Can we put goblin shamans - notably Forest Goblin shamans on giant and gigantic spiders please.
    Less likely - can we have our spider swarms back - and maybe even units of gigantic spiders....

  16. In the 9th edition O&G book, the special rules for Squig Hoppers and Giant Squigs have been omitted.

  17. I want a gigantic wolf for my goblins. (Well i just built one and i looks damn fine)
    Also i miss the gigantic Scorpion from the good Olof herohammer days goes good with the nightgoblin theme.