Thursday, 11 April 2013

Glory for the Dragon Emperor! Warhammer Cathay: Proper 8th ed update out now!

And not even halfway through April yet! I expected to be hunched over the background section for weeks, but fortunately, it worked out rather well a lot faster than that. This new and much improved version of Cathay includes the following:

- Additional background for Cathay's history. Every single official mention of Cathay is in there (as far as I know), and all dates are concurrent with the rest of the Warhammer World.
- New units: Field Engineers, Wu Xia and Brass Titans.
- New Special Characters: Tian Shi, Huan Bei, Chu-Ye Xian, Cheng Long and Dalan-Tai.
- New magic items.
- Completely revised Ying and Yan lore.
- Lots of balance changes to bring the army better into 8th ed.
- New full colour layout, filled with tons of new art.
- Bugs fixes, as usual.

Again, great thanks to Stefan Wolf who helped me with parts of the fluff, especially that of the special characters! And as usual, let me know of any bugs or other oddities. I shall now feast on toast to celebrate this joyous moment before passing out. Cheerio!



  1. Awesome, now I just need to figure out who makes Han-Tang era models at 28mm scale.

    1. There are plenty of model makers to choose from, Old Glory makes them really cheap, and renegade miniatures makes them too. Look for Reaper miniatures for models such as the phoenix and foo statues :)

    2. Maybe you should add a section to books for "you can get minis for this army from here here and here"

    3. I plan on doing that actually, will just have to sit down and go through it at some point! Though the companies really should pay me for making free advertisement for them in that case :P

  2. Finally! As a Chinese, this makes me very happy, it's always pleasant to be able to field the fantasy version of your culture! You misspelled "Yang" though in the magic section, it's missing a "g".

    Great work Matthias....

    1. Thanks! The spelling error is on purpose actually, you know how GW likes to bastardize their names ;) In the 6th ed Ogre Kingdoms book, they are referred to as Ying and Yan, so I've just kept that.

    2. Haha! Makes more sense, thanks for that. :)

  3. A question for the brush of 1000 years.

    If the LD test is pass, the spell is treated as having cast with Irresistible Force - does this mean the wizard suffers from a miscast as well due to the Irresistible Force rules?

    1. I suppose that according to RAW, he would, but that would make the item less than useful probably. I will give it another look over!

  4. Yeah, thanks! For 65 points its a bit expensive. Also, the Monkey Warriors unit entry doesn't have the Skirmishers rule while the army list section has them. :)

    1. Will fix that, thanks!

      Also just checked the BRB:
      "So, for example, a magic item that caused a Wizard to miscast automatically would force that Wizard to roll on the Miscast table, but the spell would not be cast with irresistible force.
      Similarly, an item that automatically generates irresistible force would not require a roll on die Miscast table."

      So you are all good, no miscast if you pass the test :)

    2. Thanks for the prompt reply mate! Appreciate it. Can't wait for this weekend to come soon enough.

  5. Really amazing job! I accidently deleted this comment the first time I wrote it X_X so sorry if it is less in depth. A few comments from a quick read over of the rules
    1) I think some units could use max unit size caps. The biggest one is Monkey Warriors. The auxiliare rule is a great way of capping out their units but it won’t be effective unless there is also a unit size cap (skink skirmishers are 10-20). I also think Steppe archers and nightblades in particular could use one, but these are less important.
    2) There is a small type in the army selections section it reads “stormhuler” instead of “stormhurler”. Also I think the Stormhurler is a very powerful unit, with a stat line just under elven bolt throwers but at only 60 points they are certainly the better choice of the two. Spamming them would be very strong, but I think the problem comes from the defense the player receives against warmachine hunters. While elves don’t have other warmachines, Cathay have tons! Running 3 of these with a warmachine heavy army would make it very impenetrable, as they would kill of any flyers, fast cav, or scouts very quickly.
    3) Finally with the Bush of 1000 years, I think you are playing with fire. 8th edition has shown us how strong characters like Teclis and Tetto’eko are with autocasts. While I think the item is balanced with the yin and yan lore it can be easily broken, especially with Final Transmutation in Cathay wizard’s repertoire. I like it as it is now (high risk high reward) but I can see some ways it could be broken.
    I think you are becoming better at writing lists than GW! This is really a great job, I will hold any other comments until after a few play tests. I am excited to try out the lore, it looks very well thought out. And stratagems are probably my favorite EVER warhammer mechanic. Congratulations on the good work.

    1. Thanks for the feedback!
      1. They all used to have size caps, but GW seems to have done away with that entirely in 8th ed books. I fairly certain the same will happen to skinks in the next LM book. Otherwise I do agree with you.
      2. The elven bolt throwers are considered rather overpriced though, but you have a point. Perhaps 70-75 pts would be more in line with their worth?
      3. I'm well aware that the brush could potentially be too good, but it is also, as you say, very high risk/reward. Unlike Teclis though, you must both succeed in casting the spell normally, then pass the test, and then have to have rolled a double for it to take effect, so it will be less prevalent that the book of Hoeth for instance. But please playtest it and get back with your results so I know if I need to nerf it!

  6. Hi Matthias, great work! Just a couple of questions:

    a) is it intentional for the Warlord and Duizhu to NOT have mundane shields as an equipment option?

    b) is it intentional for Wu Jens and Strategists to NOT have mount options?

    c) for Huan Bei, does his warhorse option has barding?

    d) just to clarify, for Wu Xia, their total armor save is 4+, yes? (Heavy Armor + mounted)

    e) Field Engineers with Skyrockets, since their unit size is 2 Engineers, they shoot with 2 rockets right? Same for the Fire Bombs.

    Thank you soooo much for making this book! :)

    1. A minor addendum:

      Dragon's Breath - it seems expensive for such a short range, and fragile weapon. Nonetheless, we will playtest it out and see :)

    2. Thanks!

      a) It was, since the Chinese generals never really seemed to use them. I can add them in to be more in line with other books if you want though.
      b) Yes. Cathay has never been meant to be cavalry centric, not even for their characters.
      c) No. This based on the fact the Guan Yu's horse was unbarded. However, I can add it in if you want.
      d) Correct. Not Empire Knights exactly ;)
      e) Correct, one each.

      Let me know how the Dragon's Breath fares: if its' too expensive, I'll make it cheaper!

    3. Ah thanks for the replies.

      Let's run with it first and see how it goes. Thanks again Matthias!

  7. Just dl'ed it and... wow.
    Really nicely done, havent read it through yet but, in composition, artistry and layout I dare say it might be your best work yet.

    Just one question though, since I am gathering a Nippon army and are testing it out a bit this weekend:
    The Kirin have the Impale attack with +1 Str on charge. They do not in the Nippon book. They ONCE did and then you took it out again.
    Can we assume that there will be a return of the Kirin's Impale attack?
    Personally I like the rule; it puts more focus on the Kirins fantastic speed by making their charges more impressive.

    Thanks for another great addition to the hobby :)


    1. Not to tout my own horn, but yeah, it does look rather fancy. Hopefully it will play decent as well ;)

      AS for the Kirin: yes, it will come back to the Nippon book, replacing the Imperial Armoury rule. The reason I switched the two is because the artwork in the Nippon book didn't have any horn, and because I thought the Great Guard were a little weaksauce. But since I want the two books to be consistent, I will change that back with the next update.

    2. I'm confused is this actual cannon, where did you get this information, did you just make this up?

    3. Some of it is canon, the rest is a mix of actual Chinese history as well as "fan fiction".

    4. Thanks for the info, the book was awesome. One thing though I found many grammar, spelling, and other errors like where words were repeated. Are you guys planning to do an update or something because It was quite annoying to be honest because many were very obvious. Sorry if that sounded rude that wasn't my intent.